HomeMy WebLinkAbout1993-05-06 Council Packet - Work Session, ZenorKenai City Council
Work Session
May 6, 1993
Doug Zenor Interview
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KENAI CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION
DOUG SENOR INTERVIEW
NAY 61 1993
7:30 P.K.
KENAI CITY COUNCIL CHAXBER8
COUNCIL PRESENT:
Monfor, Williams, Swarner, Bookey, McComsey, Measles and Smalley
STAFF PRESENT:
Freas, Kornelis, Graves, Howard, Harvey, Porter
OTHERS PRESENT:
Dirk Vinlow (Peninsula Clarion), Al Pease, Leo & Marion Oberts.
QUESTIONS BEGAN:
7:45 p.m.
QUE8TIONING:
Bookey: After traveling through the community, what directions
would you like to see Kenai go in regard to economic
development?
Zenor: One of his thoughts, based on research before coming to
Kenai, tourism is something that might be good for
Kenai. Having come from a couple of tourism
communities and after having consulted for six months
with a boating facility (part of a 1200 acre industrial
park, including a brewery, cherry packing, community
boat harbor, aluminum business)... economic development,
having worked in it as much as he has, depends on where
the community wants to go and how dedicated the council
is to economic development. Lots of talk in other
cities, a lot of wishing. If they look in a mirror,
they would see they didn't put out what they needed to.
Tourism is a hard, grueling job and doesn't come
overnight. Tourism, like FAA facility, is good
economic development. It doesn't have pollutants, and
provides jobs. With today's communication abilities,
Kenai can do that.
He asked himself why there is not a ferry here. They
bring economic development to a community. Maybe
similar to Lincoln City where there was not a jetty.
A convention center almost is an old cliche. He has
seen one city (Seaside, OR) that built a convention
center. It's doing very well, based on their economic
development. It boils down to what the community and
council want. Once that is established, it is a matter
of financing, energy, etc. He thinks there are a lot
of opportunities in Kenai for economic development with
diversification and improvement.
Swarner: What are your feelings of employees going to a
conference and the city pays for the airfare. What's
your feeling of the employee using vacation time at the
end of the conference?
Zenor: Using as an example, someone is going to Tampa for four
or five days and wants to spend vacation time after?
Answer from Swarner was yes, they are concerned that
the city is paying for part of his vacation flight.
He wouldn't have a problem if it was not a made-up
conference designed specifically for it. It's a tough
question and a good question. He doesn't think the
city should subsidize people's vacations, but if
someone has available leave time and the office is
covered, an extra week or so,m piggy -backed to the
conference, is not a problem.
Monfor: Biggest problems with the City of Kenai and others is
communication: the "runaround" problem. What do you
feel your strengths are as a city manager to cut the
red tape and how do you feel you would communicate to
keep lines of communication to the city council,
borough, state ... your plan for keeping lines open and
the citizens happy?
Zenor: Lots of approaches to prevent that. One of the most
difficult things a person has to deal with from the
outside is being moved through the runaround and that
depends on the staff and how they are directed by the
city manager and council to handle the situations.
There are a million ways to handle it.
In one city, he set up a system of records that
documented any citizen who came in and asked a
question. They would write their name down and what
the problem is; what they were told. Later they were
contacted and asked how they were handled -- "citizen
contact." That proved to be a workable situation and
pleased the council and gave the city manager's office
an opportunity to follow up and get an idea of how
responsive their people were to the citizens.
He has been able to work with staff and knowing who are
stronger and weaker in those areas. A "one -stop -to -
everything" scenario is important to him. Staff
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members need to be intuitive and good listeners.
Training important for the people to handling people.
He has handled communication generally in the community
differently. The logs were there for training and use
as back-up information.
In regard to communication, he keeps the council
informed and depends on how much they want to be
informed. He has tried to do, depending on what the
council wanted ... a weekly, monthly, or quarterly report
of happenings of the city. He has department heads
report each week of what they have done that week and
expect to do next week. The council report is put on
the bulletin board and goes to the news media. Staff
meetings were recorded and displayed on bulletin boards
throughout the city for keeping informed what is
happening in the city.
If news media and council are following along, then
everyone is in the know.
Measles: In viewing yourself as a manager, do you see yourself
as a strong manager (in addition to keeping council
informed with reports, etc.)? For example, if you are
at a council meeting and it appears that council is
fairly unanimous in heading one direction and your
opinion is it's the wrong direction for the best of the
city, how do you handle that situation?
Zenor: Is this something that surfaces at the council meeting
or is he a party to putting the matter on the agenda?
It has been his experience that if it is on the agenda
coming for before the council, with a lot of research
being done, he feels pretty certain that the council is
headed in a certain direction.
If something surfaces and he sees council heading in a
direction he does not feel is good for the city, he
would probably suggest that a work shop be held or hold
action until more research can be done. He would say
his piece respectfully, making it clear and back off
and leave the council to make their decision and if it
is different than his way, that's the way it works.
He would say his piece under the
respectfully and say why he felt
needs to say his piece and needs
to back off and this comes with
time to learn that is okay.
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circumstances
that way. A manager
to know when you need
maturity. It takes
McComsey: If someone working under him is not working to his full
capacity, how would you handle it?
Zenor: There are sever ways to handle this situation. One is
very common and that is periodical performance
appraisal review. There are different philosophies.
Some are formalities, the same form and treated the
same. He feels through that process a marginal
employee can be advised of their marginability. If the
work doesn't change, he would explain what's wrong
clearly and what it is and what they need to do to
correct and then go through due process counseling or
termination. It is not simple.
One of his weaknesses, he expects, is his opinion, more
out of people than what they expect. He expects people
to be above average. Personally feels people should
pull more than their weight... department heads and
supervisors. He doesn't get involved with people
working with supervisors unless asked. To simplify, he
is not a cut throat person, but he doesn't think a
person should be doing a half-baked job. You need to
do 110%. Feels strongly about that.
Williams: Having been exposed to the City of Kenai for a brief
period of time and seeing the problem surfaced last
night, do you have any comments of what you would do in
that situation.
Zenor: It's tough to ask a general contractor (laughter).
Guess he feels he has not had the opportunity to know
all of the facts of what happened when. If something
was done either hastily or because of reason he is not
aware of, understands, he feels very well working from
both sides, a change order is authorization for a
contractor to proceed. He doesn't know what lead to
him knowing ahead and doing the work without the money
being available.
Ordinarily, if a city signs a change order, that is
authorization not only to proceed, but the money is
there. They are approved either by recommendation of
the engineer, architect, etc. He is saying some place
between when the change order surfaced and it was
approved or when the contractor either went ahead
without the change order being approved.
He thinks the credibility of Kenai is very important.
Have had a lot of projects ... a bad reputation will cost
you. He felt very uncomfortable for the contractor and
the council and himself and was confident if he were
here it would not have happened, but can't tell why.
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Williams: Doesn't know if you are aware of the Alaska Court
System... If Kenai was standing on legal ground and a
strong case, would you have a problem taking Kenai into
a difficult tasks against the court system and the
state?
Zenor: Absolutely not. If the Alaska Court System promised
and did not deliver and shafted Kenai, and put the
community and contractor in jeopardy, it would be a
close -to -last resort and with his negotiating
experience he would hope to solve it before that. He
is a pit bull fighter if needs to be. Doesn't scare
him to do that. If it is what council wants to do and
is the only thing left. Has to look at pros and cons
of future.
Williams: Don't have a problem knowing that the adversary is the
attorney general?
Zenor: No. Has been known to have challenged and won. Made a
lot of differences to the city where he was working at
the time.
Bookey: With lobbying, how do you feel about going to Juneau
and lobbying?
Zenor: Fun, as long as plane is good to get there. No problem
going. As mentioned, he has dealt with legislature a
lot. More from a public works and personnel
standpoint. Basic issues he personally involved with
lots of different organization he mentioned. Takes a
lot of credit for it.
He has done personally, direct lobbying to communities
regarding labor relations, retirement, zoning, etc. It
is difficult in a new situation. You need to keep in
touch with your legislators. Will do a lot for you if
they like and respect you. It takes time. You need to
keep in touch.
Swarner: In regard to city responsibilities to OSHA and the
safety water act. Do you start a plan when you hear or
do you do something after ... EPA water
requirements —What is your feeling on a regulation
going into effect in another year, do you start
planning at that time?
Zenor: He would start as soon as he knew if it was right and
if he felt it was wrong, he would start writing letters
to say so. He doesn't wait for the ax to fall unless
the regulation is so ridiculous. Generally, he would
plan it out so that before the regulation came into
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effect, three to six months prior, he would set a
safety committee, etc. He would not wait to put the
regulation in place. He would have it in place before
the deadline.
Monfor: In travels around the city, we are a full -service city,
i.e. library, parks & recreation, senior citizens
center ... they are all services that cities don't
necessarily have to have. How would you feel about
continued support as a city manager? How do you feel
about continued support of the programs that serve the
citizens of the city and others in the area? What are
your feelings of continued support?
Zenor: Generally, under normal conditions, he is very
supportive of those services. If you take the extreme
case where finances prevent or strain, it's up to the
city council to decide what level of services, based on
finances, are available to continue. If money is real
tight, some services are really needed. If you cut the
police department or library, you know what his answer
would be.
As far as outside people using city services... This is
Alaska and he doesn't see, from his experience, that
it's as tight here as in Oregon or Washington but sees
it happening over a period of years from our budget and
the state. It puts you in a good position if you plan
now for it.
Measles: If you are a city manager, coming into town, how would
you go about getting to know the people and keeping in
touch with the people in the community and
understanding what their concerns are, etc.?
Zenor: Most city managers make an extra effort to get to know
the people by attending chamber meetings, services club
organizations, and other community groups. He has
found it advantageous to continue to do it and found
periodically visiting merchants. He has gone house to
house and visited business and talked with them. It is
impressive of what people get out of it. One way to
keep in touch.
He has been very active in each community he has worked
in and so has his wife. Surveys are good, but a
personal visit is very important.
Measles: Citizen contact ... Do you run your manager's office that
a citizen has direct access to your office without
appointment or without a need to specify a reason?
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Zenor: Sure, if he is in a meeting, working on the budget,
etc., he wouldn't be available immediately, but as
promoted, he has an open-door policy for that kind of
thing.
He doesn't believe in saying, "Tell him I'm not here."
He has a philosophy to meet things head on. If a
citizen wants to see him, he will.
Smalley: The question was asked how do you deal with the council
heading in the wrong direction. If one of the
department heads was heading in a direction you felt
uncomfortable with, what would you do? Departments
anywhere in the city.
Zenor: Sit them down immediately and say what he was observing
and let them give their side of the store and if
continued, would be additional meetings and he would
say it was not acceptable. Corrective management.
Thinks if you get it out early, you are better off. He
has been a nice guy in the past where it bit him hard.
Not that he's a bad guy either. There is a medium mode
that seems to work for him now.
Smalley: As a managerial part of his department, would you be
discussing it with him?
Zenor: He would want to here from them and give them a chance
to give their position and they can convince him. You
have to listen to people. It is a responsibility of
his. Need to explain why. If after explaining and
they don't agree, that's too bad.
Measles: Is there anything at all in your past background that
we don't know about at this time, that if it were to
become public knowledge without coming from him, would
be a embarrassment to the council or the city of Kenai?
Zenor: No.
Measles: Looking around a bit, at this point, are you as
interested in pursuing this job as you were before?
Have you seen anything to give you second thoughts
about the job?
Zenor: No.
Swarner: Do you use a computer or is it at your secretary's
desk?
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Zenor: Have had a computer in his office. He doesn't type
letters unless he has to, but he will. The computer
he's had has been used more for management analysis,
access to records, etc.
Williams: Do you feel comfortable gaining access to information
around city hall or do you expect department heads to
bring it?
Zenor: He has done that. He's not a computer freak. He has
been in cities where there are no computers. It was
lots of work to modernize. He has done networking. He
uses a computer for what it is necessary to be used
for. If he can cut time and access things by computer,
he will.
McComsey: Do you have any specific ideas in regard to economic
development, for Kenai?
Zenor: Sure. Destination type economic development, i.e.
resort. An outlet mall would be excellent for Kenai.
Lots of things sold in an outlet mall are not in
competition with other businesses, like refrigeration,
tires, tv's, etc., as a Kmart might. Outlet mall makes
people want to come and visit.
Tourism -- He knows a lot of people in the tourism
world. Some have moved on, etc. You are asking for
specifics of what he would bring to Kenai. Research is
a possibility for Kenai because of the livability -- a
think tank. He has dealt with those types of people.
He has a bit of a an "in" with that type (Ph.D's,
etc.). He feels it could work because of the time it
takes to get to a metropolitan area. He made a list at
the motel, but did not bring it. He is blanking on
them now.
Monfor: Why do you think you could be the very best person for
the job of city manager at Kenai?
Zenor: To be brief, he sees the mayor and council at this
point, heading and doing things he's very good at doing
and would compliment. A bit cautious because he has
been involved in circumstances similar to this to go
with the flow and then all the council is gone. He
feels more comfortable here. One main reason here is
the solidification and tenure of the council. It makes
a difference to him and family.
His son asked what he thinks of the council, if they
have stability. When you experience four mayors with
four and three and one-half years and over 20
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councilmembers when you have six council plus the
mayor, you become cautious. You have to change
directions lots of times.
It is very difficult to tear things down and then build
them back up. After awhile, you think it is not the
most professional and ethical thing to do and it starts
to wear on you. He sees himself setting, and wife
agrees it's a go-getter council, that wants to get
things done. Staff has good tenure. Difficult to get
a good rating on the staff. Impressed with facilities
they are working in, etc. Have talked with other
people about the staff members out of this city and
have had good ratings of the staff. Council and staff
are very important.
Measles: Talked about the tenure of council, average nationwide
for a city manager's stay on a job is two years. It
tends to be a non -tenured position in most places. We
have, he believes, about 75 years of time on the
council at this type and the last manager was here 12h
years. Are you looking for a long-term position of
city manager in one location provided all seven people
won't disappear and next won't want him? Do you like
to settle in one spot for a number of years?
Zenor: Yes, especially with distance and logistics involved.
That's part of the sole searching as well with him. It
would be very disruptive for his family and wife to
come for two, three, four years. What they have now and
move here is considerable, like house locations, etc.
Things are okay. Security is important, very important
to him and family. It would be a consideration he
would want to discuss before making a final decision.
Especially because of the changes they would be going
through. He had a chance to be city manager of big
cities, but didn't do it. Turned down jobs in cities
of 70,000 and fairly recently.
He is not one to come for a couple of years unless
something catastrophic happens. As long as he is
wanted and needed and making a different, he is
staying. If he is not really adding to the community,
etc., he doesn't need someone to tell him he would go.
He never had that happen.
Smalley: We see a lot of coming and going of individuals, what
does Martha think about Alaska?
Zenor: It all started when we hopped on a ferry about four or
five years ago and took the lower Alaska trip to
Juneau, Sitka, and back to Seattle. We fell in love
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with it. Has been offered jobs and interviewed in
Alaska far back in his career. He didn't go because
didn't feel right in his life. The last two days have
had an impact on her. Have not had a chance to talk,
specifically about Alaska and Kenai. He overheard her
telling her son during a telephone conversation that it
is looking a lot better to her after today. She's very
tough, strong, and not intimated by cold whether, etc.
She is adventurous, supportive of him and he of her.
She has a very good job right now. She supervises
about 20 people. People she works for that don't know
they are here. They will be devastated if they move
here. She's ready to give it up and ready for a rest
and regrouping.
Williams: You have been out of the city manager business for
three or four years. Do you consider some of the
things happening at the end of your last position going
into a transition period if so, why do you want to come
back into it now? Why out of the business and now why
want to come back?
Zenor: He got frustrated. He decided to change what he was
doing because before he made the decision, he had an
opportunity to do what would make it all right in his
eyes to make the change. He left the City of Lincoln
City since January of 1990. He has done (dabbled) in
city management, but continually done contracting and
always had projects. He misses being a city manager.
He wants to get back into it but wants to pick the
place he wants to go to and wants to make sure he is
protected. Security is very important to him. He has
not really progressed, construction -wise, because he
wanted to get back to city managing.
He thinks things that he got him burned out, to a
degree and a number of unfair things happened to
council and others. It was hard for him to take. His
goals as a result of this is to get back into city
management. Have been toying with it and this last
time around and with family support, decided to do it.
He has a lot of retirement from other positions. He
would have been totally retired at 52 if he was in
Washington. That's not far away. He wants to get back
to get retirement. If he come to Kenai, he would want
to stay until retirement to his cabin.
Williams: What's Lincoln City like now?
Zenor: Government -wise? Fine. His secretary was made acting
city manager. Nice lady, but no education and was
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there for five years. She worked closely with the
council. They recruited nationwide and he was not in
the pipeline, but they didn't get many applicants and
they threw them out and hired her as city manager.
Williams: How has community resolved the problems with the
council?
Zenor: It has not gone away. Five communities were
consolidated to one. In that location, it was very
difficult. In Canby, you have to live there for 25-30
years to run for council. In Lincoln City, it could be
three months.
He had lots of programs in place and just now they are
getting done and somebody is getting the credit for
them. That's fine, but people know who did it. New
City Hall, water and sewer, etc. Probably ten things
that are major that are being done now and he put them
in place. It bothers him a bit. Those are the fun
things and he got the crap.
He changed the whole budget process. Was a real
struggle. Council meetings are televised. That caused
some problems. He is very good friends with the lady
who now has the job.
He had a mayor who never worked with a mayor as
dedicated as he was. Ran on a platform to clean city
hall. He was elected and demanded an office in city
hall. He felt he was the governor of the city. He had
a "kitchen" cabinet as advisors and a coronation dance.
They put an office in with phone, etc. and he showed up
less and less and ended as his biggest supporter. Kept
him on his toes. Got to be good friends. He got
recalled. People didn't know he did so much. It
taught him about legislators and how to get through.
He is not the best state lobbyist -- a real asset to
him wherever he goes.
Swarner: Do you have any questions of council?
Zenor: At this point only one. It has been addressed. Does
this council want to stay as a council for awhile?
Does this council feel that they want to stay?
It appears that council gets along. No serious
problems. He can derive that no one has stated they
are leaving or not planning to run again at this time.
When you are a good city manager and staff and peers
support you and basically the community supports, it is
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tough to have an ugly situation. Very tough.
Security, continuity, etc. very important.
Leo Oberts: In Alaska, have boom and bust periods. Right now
with new oil discoveries, looks like another increase.
When that happens, you want to increase your business,
etc. Have a problem with legislature. Today they are
not Kenai friendly. The financial power is in
Anchorage. Power of legislature is in Anchorage, etc.
Thinks business community needs to have someone
checking on them. Get busy and don't have time to talk
with people. We are an old community, but also a brand
new community.
There is a large native population that own a lot of
land in the area. Large interest in gas fields. Two
local native corporations. They will need to be looked
at closely here.
Zenor: Was informational. If a community is going to be a
"moving and shaking" community, they need to have their
pulse on the legislature. Need to have them aware that
you will be there and keep them informed.
Oberts: Tourism is just beginning to take off. Locally has not
got momentum, but will probably see an increase this
year.
Zenor: Economic development ideas. Some kind of
interpretative center or something piggy -backing on
something else. They are good economic development.
Tourism needs to be more than hotels and restaurants.
You need to get the tourism now or someone else will
beat you to the punch. If that's what you want. Some
people don't like the visitors.
Williams: Seward is embarking on a program to put an aquarium for
tourist ships. Big scheme. He is watching if it will
go.
Oberts: In business community, talk about getting "value
added." Anchorage has stolen a lot of business that
should have been here instead of Anchorage.
Williams: Thanks for coming up visiting and applying. Have a
full schedule tomorrow. Will be visiting some of the
plants. Hoping you will tour yourself on Saturday.
Dinner on Saturday and volunteer at the library
tomorrow. Look at Peninsula. Will take all said into
consideration.
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Zenor: Really appreciates time, tours, etc. He has not
normally found council doing this, being with the
candidate, etc. Most of them want to interview the
person and in a social setting a short time. This
process has had an impact on he and his wife.
Congratulations for time and effort -- both he and
Martha. Martha "would have came" if she knew it was
public. She didn't know it.
Vinlow: open door policy. How do you view the roles of the
press. Do you go to the press or do they come to you?
Zenor: A two -fold question -- (1) Role of the press and (2)
does he go to the press or do they come to him.
(1) Had a lot of experience dealing with public
relations starting with Eugene. Was in charge of all
media. Learned a lot about dealing with entities,
newspaper, tv, etc. If he finds newspapers to be
vicious, ruthless, etc., he can work with it. But he
has been in the situation where the city has been very
guarded because of the media.
His approach to the press: The news media is a
communicator,, i.e. a vehicle for the citizens and
government to communicate. There are several
responsibilities of the press and those are
informational, i.e. responsibility to inform the
citizens what's happening; a watchdog for both sides of
the fence. All in the same bowl. Thinks news media is
responsible for the city to communicate familiarity.
They are involved from the start and can report
accurately.
He has usually had a level of trust to keep informed
even on confidential level so when the story hits, they
can go ahead. Trust, accuracy -- stories need good
press and press needs to report for the city.
INTERVIEW ENDED AT 9:35 P.M.
Notes transcribed by:
Carol L. Freas, City Clerk
5/10/93
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