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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1996-05-09 Airport Commission SummaryKENAI AIRPORT COMMISSION AGENDA May 9, 1996 City Hall Council Chambers Chairman Tom Thibodeau 1. Roll Call 2. Approval of Agenda 3. Approval of Minutes April 11, 1996 4. Persons Present Scheduled to be Heard 5. Old Business a. INTERact Group 6. New Business 7. Airport Manager's Report 8. Commission Comments and Questions 9. Information Items a. Planning & Zoning Commission Resolution PZ96-26--Rezone b. City Council Agenda (5/1/96) 1 0. Adjournment Agenda May 9.doc KENAI AIRPORT COMMISSION MINUTES May 9, 1996 1. Roll Call Members present: Members absent: Others present: Bonnie Koerber, Tom Thibodeau, Barbara Edwards, James Bielefeld Ron Holloway, Henry Knackstedt Acting Airport Manager Keith Holland, Administrative Assistant Marilyn Kebschull, Councilman Duane Bannock 2. Approval of Agenda BIELEFELD MOVED TO ADD ITEM b TO ITEM 5, THE BASIN FUEL SYSTEM; BETWEEN ITEMS 8 AND 9 TO ADD A TEN MINUTE RECESS; CHANGE ITEM 10 TO PERSONS PRESENT NOT SCHEDULED TO BE HEARD; AND, ADD NUMBER 11, ADJOURNMENT. MOTION SECONDED BY EDWARDS. ADGENDA APPROVED. 3. Approval of Minutes April 11, 1996 EDWARDS MOVED TO APPROVE THE MINUTES OF APRIL 11, 1996. SECONDED BY BIELEFELD. MOTION MINUTES APPROVED. 4. Persons Present Scheduled to be Heard 5. Old Business a. INTERact Group--Acting Airport Manager Holland advised INTERact is an organization that is working on the Fire Training Center with Mr. Ernst, the Mayor, and the Fire Department. Holland advised that Ernst and the others are currently on a tour of the state trying to gain support for the Aircraft Fire Training Center that would be in addition to the existing structural Fire Training Center. Holland advised they were visiting Juneau, Anchorage, Fairbanks, Ketchikan, and Kodiak in hopes of gaining DOT's, and other agencies, support of this center. Holland advised Ernst would be returning late Friday afternoon. Airport Commission Minutes Page 2 May 9, 1996 b. Basin Fuel System--Holland advised that Mr. Ernst had made comments at the last meeting about the fuel system at the Float Plane Basin stating he was hoping to have that system online by this time. Holland advised that they had had the system ready to go and had attempted to contact the bank and get the computer online. Holland noted he Petrovin Company that they are dealing with advised they had changed programming which means the city will have to change programming and upgrade equipment. Holland advised that means the city is back to square one and will have to reapply for the credit card reader system, buy new programming, and get it installed. Holland advised they are in the process of doing this and it looks like a two to three week delay. Thibodeau asked what the costs would be to make these changes and commented that this same company had held up the system last year. Holland advised the preliminary estimates are $1 200.00; however, it could be less. Holland advised it may be $900.00 if the current modems are compatible. Holland advised the basin will be open next week. Thibodeau asked if it was clear of ice. Holland advised it just needed an inspection to be opened. Thibodeau asked if there had been interest in the basin this year. Holland informed the Commission that a couple new people have picked up permits for slips, but other than that, Holland stated he expected it to be the normal users. Thibodeau asked if there was any FBO's? Holland advised not at this point. Holland advised he would like to talk about the advertising concession that was discussed at the last meeting but it had not been placed on the agenda. Holland stated the bids were evaluated and there was only one bidder that met the criteria and that was Innerspace Advertising. Holland advised that proposal had been taken to City Council and Council gave the go ahead to enter into negotiations for a contract with the advertising agency. Holland advised that letters have been sent to all advertisers currently in the airport notifying them of the changes that will be coming about. Holland reported there will be a blitz of advertising at the end of the month when Innerspace will be in Kenai, pending the approval of the contract. They will actually be sitting down with advertisers and discussing the types of displays, locations, what will be available, pricing, and all the pertinent details. Holland advised that they will be moving fairly quickly and that they are going to try to get everything completed by August. Holland advised there will be new displays and the poster phone board will be replaced with a new updated version. Thibodeau asked if this would mean a lot of construction activity going on with the summer activity in the terminal. Holland advised that a lot of the Airport Commission Minutes Page 3 May 9, 1996 displays would be off-site construction and then mounted and installed. Holland advised there may be some wiring and some minor construction. 6. New Business 7. Airport Manager's Report Acting Airport Manager Holland advised he didn't have anything additional and advised that Mr. Ernst will be back in town on Friday. 8. Commission Comments and Questions TEN MINUTE RECESS 9. Information Items a. Planning & Zoning Commission Resolution PZ96-26 -- Rezone-- Acting Airport Manager Holland advised he would like to address the informational items from the P&Z Commission. Holland noted the minutes to that meeting are in the Airport packet. Holland advised there were things that were mentioned during testimony that he would like to address stating there was misinformation in the public as what the airport has done and what has been studied in the past. Holland advised they talked about establishing an airport noise overlay zone around the Kenai Airport for protection of the residential areas near the Kenai Airport from noise and fuel pollution. Holland advised he is not sure what the person is alluding to by fuel pollution and if they are referring to atmospheric pollution or actual spills. Holland drew attention to the handouts and the charts he had handed out. Holland stated it had been mentioned that there were enormous increases in airport traffic, increased noise and fuel pollution, increased risks from crashes which endanger the area and are a nuisance to residential areas near the airport, flight patterns, flight times, and minimum altitude requirements that are not enforced by the city or by the FAA which lead to incidents such as the Southcentral Air crash. Holland stated he didn't believe that that was in any of the findings from the Southcentral Air crash. Holland stated that once the aircraft took off it had problems which eliminated it from following any published procedure. Holland added that was a survival procedure only; and, pilots are not required to fly patterns if experiencing any kind of difficulty. Holland commented that under the circumstances the pilot was lucky to make it as far as he did. Airport Commission Minutes Page 4 May 9, 1996 Holland added the city has addressed the noise sensitive area to the west side of the airport. Holland stated that one of the handouts he had passed out was handed out to every lessee who leases a float plane slip from the city and it specifically addresses the patterns for noise abatement procedure that those pilots will fly on their approaches and departures from the float plane basin. Holland stated it requires that the final approach for north landings will start from the beach of the Cook Inlet so that eliminates them from flying over the noise sensitive area. On the south take off pattern, pilots are to extend their climb out until they reach the beach along the Cook Inlet prior to executing a turn unless otherwise authorized by the Air Traffic Control for avoidance or conflict with other aircraft. Holland advised that this is the standard procedure. Holland advised on the next sheet of the handout in the Airport Facilities Directory under the Kenai Municipal Sea Plane, those same noise abatement for aircraft to the west side is addressed. Holland advised this is where pilots get their information when they use the Kenai facility. Holland commented that it is not a case of the airport ignoring the condition. Holland asked the group to turn to the next page and advised this page is from the Kenai Master Plan (May 1987). Holland advised these are actual and forecast statistics. Holland drew attention to the 1995 statistics column noting the annual air operations were forecast to be 104,281 operations. Holland advised the current operations in 1 984 were 88,528 operations. Holland stated the 1995 figure was a forecast. The next page, Holland advised is from the current Master Plan Working Copy that is under development with Aires Consultants. Holland noted the base year under 1995 total operations as being 77,911 operations. Holland commented that was a considerable difference from the forecast operations of 104,000 operations. Holland stated he was showing that the airport has changed in function and there are less operations now than was forecast. Holland asked the group to turn two pages back in the handout. Holland advised this was a 1 984 Noise Exposure Contour based upon the traffic in 1984. Holland noted the elliptical zones that say 70 and 65 and explained that these numbers are decibels. Holland stated that 70 decibels is a relatively small area around the runway itself. The 65 decibels extends beyond that somewhat. Holland noted that the 65 decibel range basically lies within the perimeter of the fence. Holland advised that from his research, it is his understanding that 60 decibels is the cutoff limit that most cities use for noise procedures. Holland clarified that if a city is trying to set a noise sensitive area, they try to keep it below 60 decibels. Airport Commission Minutes Page 5 May 9, 1996 On the next page, Holland advised this was the forecast for 2005 based on the numbers that were in these charts. Holland advised these figures are considerably higher than the actual figures. Holland stated the area grows slightly but it is not considerably different. Holland stated it indicated that on the diagram where the Float Plane Basin would be is a 65 decibel contour. Holland reiterated that these contours are based on the higher numbers than was forecast. Holland added that the number of airport operations is not close to the numbers forecast. Holland stated that when the new Master Plan is complete and the noise contour comes out, it will most likely be smaller than this based on the actual numbers and aircraft at the airport now. Returning to the P&Z minutes, Holland noted that a statement had been made that the city had already been sued over increased airport noise. Holland stated it was his understanding that there was an attempt to sue the city but the plaintiff lost the case. Holland stated individuals had commented they had not been notified when the Float Basin was put in and there were a lot of complaints regarding the Float Plane Basin. Holland advised there had been public hearings held but there was very little public interest shown at those public hearings. Holland reiterated that there were hearings for those who wished to attend and they had been advertised. Holland advised he would like to provide information for standard procedures at the Kenai Airport. Holland commented a lot of comments had been made about aircraft flying over people's houses at two to three feet. Holland stated this was surely an exaggeration. Holland noted the standard procedures for large turbo prop type aircraft that there is an altitude of 1500 feet. Holland advised that general aviation traffic has a standard altitude pattern of 1000 feet. Continuing, advised the Float Plane Basin has a lower traffic pattern of 700 feet. Holland commented that they are to fly a particular pattern for noise abatement procedures. Holland stated these were items he was not sure that people were aware adding that they do exist, there are procedures, and if they are violated in the manner people are testifying, they will be reported for that. Holland advised that the FAA has the responsibility of dealing with reports. Holland stated that the airport cannot enforce the regulations. Holland drew attention to the letter from Airport Manager Ernst in the informational items in the packet which addressed the zoning request from the P&Z meeting. Chairman Thibodeau asked if there had been in the past many complaints involving aircraft in the pattern at lower than normal altitudes. Holland Airport Commission Minutes Page 6 May 9, 1996 stated there are occasionally complaints and a couple of individuals who habitually complain but it is on a repetitive basis. Holland stated there one individual who complains habitually, but she is about the only one. Holland added that occasionally there will be a complaint but not very often. Thibodeau asked if complaints were mostly involving float plane traffic? Holland stated no, it could be a Cessna 152 in the pattern after 6, 7, or 8 p.m. Holland stated that quite often the complaints are about the Air National Guard training. Holland commented there are some instances wherein complaints were legitimate. For example, the Guard was here too late at night or a 737 doing training at night and those complaints were addressed. Holland advised that the dispatchers for those companies are contacted and reminded that there are certain hours that the city requests that they train. Thibodeau asked if the city was required to allow the military and noted that they don't pay a landing fee primarily because they are paying for the runway. Thibodeau asked if that was correct? Holland stated no that they are not a commercial operation and the city only charges landing fees to commercial operations that are over 4000 pounds. Thibodeau commented that the military is a government entity that cannot be charged because the government really pays for the airport through the FAA. Holland stated they do not fit into the landing fee status. Thibodeau asked if there were any studies to show how the decibel is broken down, or noise, as passing through a wooded area in comparison to passing through a subdivision. Holland advised that he was not aware of any studies and noted that he is not sure of the procedure for arriving at the noise contours. Holland continued stating that the noise contours are a preliminary guide if an airport has a problem with noise. If a problem is determined, then further avenues are pursued. b. City Council Agenda (5/1/96) No report. 10. People Present Not To Be Heard Chairman Thibodeau asked if there were people present who would like to address the Commission. JAMES MEEK, 411 BIRCH STREET--Meek stated he lives a couple hundred yards from the Float Plane Basin. Meek stated that every morning he can hear the float planes start up and it is a lot louder than 60 to 75 decibels that was mentioned. Meek stated he worked in the oil business for a long time and is familiar with the decibel rating system. Meek reiterated he knew it Airport Commission Minutes Page 7 May 9, 1996 was a lot louder than that. Meek stated he has acoustic tiles in the house to help break the sound down. Meek stated even in the basement in the morning he can hear them. Meek stated then there is the fish plane that does its touch and goes every year. Meek stated it goes over his house a couple hundred feet off the top and rattles the doors and windows. Meek stated it is not paying attention to the rules at all. Meek stated the military planes only come over once in a while and doesn't bother him. Meek stated there are a lot of small planes that fly right over the top of the trees which is very dangerous and they don't pay any attention to the rules. Meek stated his main concern is property values and he doesn't want their property values to go down. Meek added he has lived there quite a while and doesn't want his investment to go down. Meek stated his understanding of the buildings that will be built at the end of the road are substandard buildings. Not the kind of buildings he would like to see at the end of his road. Meek stated that once the trees are cut down there will be no sound barrier whatsoever. Not only will he be complaining, all of the people in Woodland will be complaining about it and they will get angry. Meek stated there will be law suits. Meek stated that one law suit may be an anomaly but when all of Woodland gets angry, there will be more law suits. Just because one lawyer was not successful does not mean that several people getting involved with a law suit will not be successful. Meek stated he felt the city was looking at somebody coming at Mr. Hall or someone who they deem responsible for this problem if it does happen. Meek stated he would like to see the city buy or trade for the land and preserve the trees as a buffer to end a serious problem. BOBBLE OSKOLKOFF--Stated she lives in the same neighborhood. Oskolkoff stated she had called the city once about the noise. Oskolkoff stated that her husband literally, if he had been standing on a ladder, could have touched that plane. It came over, Oskolkoff stated she was serious, and it was that Iow. Oskolkoff stated it had scared them adding that they had never called any other time. Her house was rattling. Oskolkoff stated that there is only one person who lives closer to the airport than they are. Oskolkoff said that when the planes come, they can't talk on the phone, they can't hear. Oskolkoff stated she is used to the winter planes and it is particularly bad at night. Oskolkoff stated in the summer she gives tours at the Russian Church and has to stop the tour because it is that noisy. Oskolkoff stated they just put in all new windows and stuff and it didn't make a difference. Oskolkoff stated it is really bad in the summer, you can't enjoy your yard. Oskolkoff added that it is true that the planes come over and in particular they had one bad incident and they called. Oskolkoff stated they were told they couldn't do anything, that they didn't know what plane did it. Oskolkoff stated that doesn't help her noting that the plane could have run right into her house. Airport Commission Minutes Page 8 May 9, 1996 Oskolkoff stated she has seen them coming down around First and Birch sometimes just barely clearing the trees. There are a few houses there. Oskolkoff stated she thinks if the city wants to improve the airport, they should look at Marathon Road and get it out of the main part of the city. Oskolkoff stated that the city has a choice. They can provide the buffer or they can come and buy their property and move them somewhere building them new houses comparable to what they have. The city needs to consider that people live in the city and this problem wasn't that bad with just the small planes. Oskolkoff stated that she believes there is a problem and the city needs to be aware that the summer problem is much worse than the winter problem. Oskolkoff stated she doesn't think everybody is complaining all the time but maybe they should be if that it what it takes. RAPHAEL MOORE, 411 BIRCH STREET--Moore stated he doesn't know why everything boils down to everyone arguing over something that is really one simple problem to solve. Moore stated he knew a lot of people who weren't notified of this meeting adding that it was a spur of the moment meeting and he was at the meeting last night. Moore stated he felt that we need this property with the trees on it for the animals that are there. If you start clearing an area where there is animals, you force them out. Moore commented that animals don't care who they hurt when they are leaving. Moore stated he hopes that the City of Kenai has enough money or enough property to make a trade with the property. Moore stated he felt that the City of Kenai and the people on the board should stop and think, if l don't live near the airport, how will l know what these people are talking about. Moore stated the airport is going to get bigger, we know that. If the city doesn't want to foot the whole bill, let the airport help adding that they get enough money out of us. MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, 613 MAPLE DRiVE--Christian noted he will keep his comments brief as the commission already has a number of his comments adding that there are issues that he hasn't touched on and he would like to offer an answer a few statements that were made. Christian stated they are looking at the future of Kenai and the Kenai Airport noting they are not looking at right now. The future is growth and planning for it. Christian stated their future is increased noise. Christian stated they are not getting the enforcement of the flight patterns. Christian stated there is no question about that adding that if they would like everyone to write down every time one goes over he could spend a week or a month out there and could do it. Christian stated they haven't done that because it isn't a real problem right now and they can live with it. But, if you cut the trees down, you will get more noise and it will come right across to them. Christian noted, then, they will have a problem. And, the city will have to deal with it in a lot more Airport Commission Minutes Page 9 May 9, 1996 expensive manner. Christian stated the city had one law suit and they won that suit. Christian stated if the city lets those houses get built in that area that these people are telling you what is happening on Birch, they are going to get it many, many more. They are planning on 48 lots in that one area and 10 lots in another area. Each one of those lots will have a home and a person will be complaining about the noise. Christian stated they want to prevent that and to do it when it is cheap and not when it is expensive. Christian stated that they want to save the city and themselves tax money. Christian added that the man bought the property for $75,000 and the city can get it for a cheap amount adding that just the cost of putting in a road could supplement the costs of buying this property back and making it a conservation/noise buffer zone for all that development to the west. Christian stated if it is necessary to be obnoxious and complain every time and if that is what the city want them to do, they will do it. Christian stated that Monday a C1 30 took off from the north end of the runway and made a 90 degree turn and came right through their subdivision. Christian stated that most people do violate this flight pattern. Christian stated that Iow planes are the worst; they will take off and immediately turn to these areas of Woodland and the Birch and Third Avenue area and not follow the flight pattern. THERESA WERNER-QUADE, 409 MCCOLLUM DRIVE -- Werner-Quade stated that she hoped that the minutes from the P&Z meeting last night clarified why everyone is here tonight. Werner-Quade stated she was before the Commission first as a citizen and second as a P&Z Commissioner. Werner- Quade stated that in no way does she represent the Commission as a whole adding that she had some things from the meeting last night that she would like to share. Werner-Quade stated that on page two of the minutes Ms. Mahurin was stating that she wanted to discuss recommendation to City Council that they pursue purchase or trade of the property in question which is called Richka Park which butts Woodland. Werner-Quade stated she wanted that to be considered a buffer. Further down, Councilman Smalley asked if this had been presented to the Airport Commission for their thoughts and that the Airport Commission should have input on the matter. At that point, the Old Business which was the trade or purchase of the Richka Creek property for an airport buffer zone, ended and a group is here tonight to further that discussion. Werner-Quade (showing a newspaper article) stated she had cut this out of the paper because she woke up at 4:30 a.m. to a 737 taking off from Kenai Airport. Werner-Quade noted that she doesn't live in Woodland adding that she lives by Kenai High School off Aliak and McCollum Drive and Fox Avenue. Werner-Quade stated there is a large tract of land that heads out Airport Commission Minutes Page 1 0 May 9, 1996 opposite of Woodland which the borough recently rezoned as residential. Werner-Quade stated that nothing has been built there. Werner-Quade showed a map she took off a regular city map a couple years ago that shows the airport and the piece of land that butts up where she lives noting there could be a subdivision going in there any time. Given that there will be a NASA Space Challenger Center being built behind Marathon Road close to the pond, Werner-Quade stated she wanted to pass the map around. Werner-Quade stated she had drawn a line where she would like to see an additional buffer zone be considered noting it would be from behind the NASA building heading toward M¢Collum and Fox. Werner-Quade commented that when you provide for a buffer zone, you are providing for scenery, the wildlife, noise barriers, quality of life, sanctuary for the Sandhill cranes, and other animals that are nesting. Werner-Quade stated these things could ultimately be salvaged with the Richka Creek buffer zone. Werner-Quade stated she had brought a copy of the ordinance from the city which was all they were given noting that the trade or purchase was only an idea right now. Werner-Quade stated it basically talks about said property to be dedicated for public use. Werner-Quade stated that one reason the city may want to have a buffer zone is so the city can follow their own Comprehensive Plan. Werner-Quade stated that in the minutes from P&Z you can see where she read out of the Comprehensive Plan last night. Werner-Quade stated she would encourage everyone who does not ~have a copy of the Comprehensive Plan to get one and take it home and have it around. Werner-Quade stated you can access any kind of information about goals and objectives of the city the Comp Plan. Werner-Quade added that it was recently updated. Werner-Quade stated she had a copy of the Anchorage Comp Plan adding that some people might remember that the Anchorage Airport had a tendency to spread out and was soon encroaching on some subdivisions causing a lot of problems. Werner- Quade stated that Kenai has an opportunity to let others know that the city has goals and directions. Werner-Quade stated that one of the things it says in Anchorage's Comp Plan, "recent planning theory has stressed the need to develop short range implementation projects and programs to implement the long range recommendations of the Comp Plan. Previous comprehensive planning efforts in other communities as well as those of Anchorage have resulted in less than optimal near turn solutions for land use and density because of the long range orientation of Comp Plans." Werner-Quade stated that if the city can start by getting a little something going, a small goal, it will add to the bigger picture. Airport Commission Minutes Page 11 May 9, 1996 Werner-Quade stated that she had talked to Mr. Holland on Wednesday about air traffic routes and he is going to get with Mr. Ernst and supply those routes to the Planning and Zoning Commission who will look at them. Werner-Quade stated she knew it wouldn't immediately solve the problem of Iow flying aircraft. Werner-Quade stated she agreed with the people in the audience noting she was picking up her kindergartner on Tuesday at 1:30 p.m. and there was a huge plane flying Iow down Forest. Werner-Quade stated she knows that they fly Iow but she doesn't live in Woodland and doesn't have the impact. She added that where she lives, she will have that impact and it will be sooner than she hopes for. If there can be a buffer zone provided behind NASA running through to her house, it will solve a lot of things. Werner-Quade added it will be able to be traded or purchased, in her opinion, for a lot less money than if the city waits until subdivisions are put in and then buys it back later under litigation. Werner-Quade added that the city doesn't need any more litigation. Werner-Quade commented again that she is here as a citizen and has a concern over where she lives. Werner-Quade encouraged the Commission to take a look at the maps, take a look at the Comp Plan, and maybe something way can be figured to create an airport buffer zone. Werner-Quade added she believes that the Richka Creed Subdivision is a really good place to start. Thibodeau asked Werner-Quade to point out on a map the Richka Creek property and what the future extension denoted on the map meant. Werner- Quade explained that this map was from two years ago and she had spoken to Ernst about it. Thibodeau stated he thought the expansion was in another direction than that as drawn on the map. Werner-Quade commented that she had just did the best she could on designations on the map. BARB CHRISTIAN, 613 MAPLE--Christian advised she lives in Woodland Subdivision. Christian stated she wanted to point out, because this is new information to the Commission and there will probably be more said about this in future weeks, she doesn't want any misconceptions about what it is that they are concerned about. Christian stated in some places this is coming across as an attack on the Airport Commission or airport noise.; Christian noted that isn't how it started. Christian stated it isn't anti- development, that isn't how it started, and it isn't a bunch of Woodland people worrying that their property values are going to go down and so they don't want anymore building in Kenai. Christian said it started with the realization that if there is as much noise now as there is in the airport and you put 48 more families closer to the airport, there is going to be some sort of repercussion that will be expressed to the city. There are going to be complaints and the city is going to have to deal with them. Christian stated Airport Commission Minutes Page 1 2 May 9, 1996 it is that kind of thing that they are trying to prevent before it happens. Christian stated there is that matter and the matter of future taxation in the same area because the subdivision as planned right now would eventually need sewer and water put in and road access built paved to it that would cost much more than it would cost to buy the property now. Christian stated it is these concerns that are behind the movement it isn't all of these various attacks and advised she just wanted to clarify that. SHERRY MCBRIDE, 1111 5TM AVE--McBride advised that the Float Plane Basin is right outside her back door. McBride advised that her house was built by her in-laws in 1954 and they were the first people in the area. Her mother-in-law moved out two years ago because the float plane basin got put in and it got too noisy for her. McBride stated that she has learned to live with it. She has three kids, 12, 10, and 3 year old. McBride stated her three year old loves it; it is woods all around. He thinks it is neat to see the planes go over and at times he can see the pilots and wave to them. McBride stated they buffered a lot of the subdivision up front on their property and will keep it that way. McBride stated if they cut the trees on the property on the side, they might as well take her house and put it in the middle of the runway because that is what she will be hearing. McBride stated it gets bad enough as it is. The fish planes come in, there is one lear jet who flies so Iow you can count every bolt on the machine. McBride stated they put shadows in her window adding they come right over the top of her house. McBride stated if they take out the trees next door to her and put in this subdivision, she will have planes and cars making noise and a lot more traffic. McBride noted that as it is they get a lot of kids back there partying. The subdivision opened up part of it and cleared an area and McBride stated she has chased kids out of there. McBride stated there is garbage being dumped there and her and her kids have cleaned it up. McBride stated there is a lot of wildlife back there including birds, moose, and caribou. McBride noted there is a family of Stellar Blue Jays living in the woods there now. McBride stated her son gets out books and looks up the birds and animals and commented that she would like things to stay the way they are. McBride stated that Kenai isn't too big and suggested going one direction or the other which might make Kenai combine with either Soldotna or North Kenai but at least you will be saving a lot of trees. McBride explained her family's history noting that her husband had been born in their house, she had lived there 18 years, and that her father-in-law put Birch Street in. McBride stated their house has grandfather rights commenting that the dirt in her basement slides from the vibration of planes. Airport Commission Minutes Page 1 3 May 9, 1996 McBride stated that 'they had dirt falling last summer when they brought in the machinery to work on the property. McBride stated their house won't handle much more traffic noting that they are wanting to take Fifth Avenue and move it up against her house. McBride said she meant that literally and when the snow would be plowed they would be plowing it into her garage. McBride said they have already cleared the land behind her to put a road through noting if they do, they would be hitting her garage and where they have their dog chained in the tall grass. McBride stated her son has a tire swing there and added that there would be no trees, no wildlife, no place for the kids to run through. She added that her 1 2 year old had did a science project about rain forests and came home and told her that if they put the subdivision in they would all choke. McBride noted they already smell the fuel bad on some days and she doesn't open her doors or windows. McBride stated that if they take the trees out everyone's houses would get the noise. McBride reiterated her feelings several times about how beautiful she felt the woods were and that they should be saved. McBride said her husband used to swim in Float Plane Lake and now the kids can't use it and now they want to destroy the woods. McBride said she lives on a dead end street and commented that she would be calling the City of Kenai tomorrow and say she wanted a sign saying children at play. McBride talked about how fast people drive in the area and how many kids play in the area. McBride added that if they put the subdivision in, they might as well put fences up for the kids so they can keep the kids in. McBride stated her land ends right at the park on Fourth Avenue adding that she can yell from her back door to her kids. McBride said if they put the subdivision in the city may as well come in and pick her house up and turn it around and move it back further into her property so they will not have cars hit her house or run into her front yard. McBride said that is the way the road will go and when they do it they will dig up her gas, electric, phone, and all utilities will be shut off. McBride said she doesn't want to lose her power. McBride said the City of Kenai, Fire Department, and Police Department didn't know her house was back there and when her son got hurt they had to show them where they lived. McBride said she doesn't want to see anymore destruction and wants to let her kids play and be safe. McBride said she lived in Anchorage for three years and kept her kids inside. (Note: McBride continued on for sometime repeating the same comments in various ways.) GINGER KAONA, 691 SYCAMORE CIRCLE--Kaona stated she would like to echo the concern of Barbara Christian noting they are not trying to make anyone's life miserable but would like the City of Kenai and the Airport Commission to take a serious look at the buffer zone. It is very much needed. Koana stated she had one comment on the air traffic and noted appreciation that the planes are provided to pilots; however, they are not Airport Commission Minutes Page 1 4 May 9, 1996 adhered to. Kaona said she didn't feel it was necessary to call every single time but if that will help the cause she noted she will call. Kaona noted she hated to do that but if that is what needs to be done to make the documentation then she will make the calls noting they do fly very Iow. Kaona stated she would appreciate the Commission's help. Note: .From this point conversation took place between Commission and members of the audience without use of the podium. Acting Airport Manager Holland asked those who are talking about the airplanes flYing Iow what areas are you talking about. Holland asked if they realized that the runways on each end that airplanes have to land on. Holland asked if they were talking about directly over the top of the subdivision where they are flying that Iow? Christian responded he had found an inspection plate in his back yard. Holland stated that doesn't mean he was two feet over the house. Christian stated he was not talking about height but that they were not supposed to be in line over the subdivision and Christian asked what pattern they were supposed to be flying. Holland stated the approach that is laid down takes them out directly towards the inlet if you are coming right off the end of the runway. But, you still have to fly a pattern for the runway and that pattern altitude Holland stated he had talked about earlier for larger aircraft 1500 feet and for general aviation aircraft of 1000 feet. Holland stated that pattern will take them towards that direction and will actually put it on the other side of Woodland. Christian said they shouldn't be flying directly over Woodland and Redoubt, they should be going further. Thibodeau explained that when they take off if they are going to the south, they will continue the climb until the shore line. The lowest pattern altitude is for float planes and that is a 700 foot altitude which may appear Iow. Thibodeau said once they get to the shore, they turn to the west and then north. Thibodeau said there really is no defining how far out or how close that down wind leg is going to be. Thibodeau said in a smaller plane a conservative pilot will keep it to where if he has an engine failure, he can make it to the runway safely or make it to the water safely. The 700 foot pattern altitude for the float plane basin would necessitate that that plane would be probably over the Woodland area in order to make it from an altitude of 700 feet to the water, he can't be too far out. Thibodeau said he certainly will not be further out than Sears, he will be in closer. The planes that are general aviation, wheeled aircraft, their pattern altitude is 1000 feet and they may be just a little further out. Thibodeau said if it is an engine failure and they want to be able to make it to the runway, they will be conservative. Christian asked Thibodeau if they were saying they are keeping them close to the runway as a preventative measure. Thibodeau said that is a matter of pilot judgment. There is no defining for a pilot as how big that pattern is. Thibodeau said at a very large airport the number of people in the pattern might actually set how big the pattern is. Thibodeau said with this Airport Commission Minutes Page 1 5 May 9, 1996 being a smaller airport it is safer to keep it closer in and that would be why they generally come straight in and out. They usually don't fly a pattern. Ms. Oskolkoff stated her complaint is the plane that just about hit their house. She stated they are coming from the west to the east. Oskolkoff stated the helicopters do this and this particular plane did this. Oskolkoff asked why they were using this direction if the airport runs north and south? Thibodeau stated if they are coming from the west to the east and are directly over Woodland, they are out of line. Oskolkoff stated they are not in Woodland and the ones who are complaining the loudest are the people on Birch. Oskolkoff stated they are the people most affected and that is why the planes make it so they can't even talk on the phone. Holland stated that is the approach for the end of the runway. Oskolkoff said they don't normally fly that direction and there are a few planes that are hitting awful Iow. Oskolkoff remarked that they should be able to see them from the tower. Thibodeau said there is a Vassey System which is a light system which most of the pilots will use on that approach. A larger aircraft will appear to be a lot closer to you. Thibodeau said he wasn't saying that they weren't real close and noted that he has been down there himself and has seen larger aircraft coming in that appear to be really Iow. Thibodeau remarked that a big aircraft will appear to be a lot closer plus the runway is the length where a larger aircraft will want to hit the beginning of the runway. Oskolkoff stated that the city should be considering this buffer zone because of the military planes and the fish planes adding that she can live with the little planes. Oskolkoff added remarks about the hours the planes fly and the fact that there are a lot of shift workers who need to sleep and get up at 4 a.m. Commissioner Bielefeld stated there are two separate issues. Bielefeld stated the buffer zone is one thing and he agrees with the buffer zone noting that development within an airport traffic pattern is short sited on the part of the people buying the property. The Iow flying aircraft is a separate issue and they don't belong there. Bielefeld stated he had been trying to figure out why they are there noting that Birch Drive does not line up with the traffic pattern. Oskolkoff reiterated that they were not flying north and south but east and west. Note: Conversations between Commissioners as well as people in the audience. Chairman Thibodeau advised they had been discussing that their runway actually starts about halfway down the paved runway. Thibodeau advised that Christian had been saying when they take off sometimes they are climbing to altitude, they are not going to the shore line, they are turning west out over that area. Thibodeau stated he agrees and knows that kind of thing has happened in the past and knows that is the type of thing that if you see and get a time or a description to the airport administration they can find out from tower which aircraft that was and can have a Airport Commission Minutes Page 1 6 May 9, 1996 talk with the pilot. Acting Airport Manager Holland advised that is not the case and stated they are not an enforcing body and cannot do a thing other than get their tail number, find out an aircraft description, and call the FAA and make a report. That is all that can be done as well. Holland reiterated they cannot enforce anything. Christian asked then if they are to go to the FAA and Holland advised yes. It really does no good to call the city other than for the city to keep a record of it. Thibodeau commented that once an airplane leaves the ground, it is with the FAA it has nothing to do with the city airport. Oskolkoff asked if that was on the approach also asking about the easterly direction again. Holland stated that the helicopters that depart the Kenai Airport are normally departing out over the area of the golf ball. Holland asked if they knew where that was and explained it is out across the marshy flat areas towards Colliers. That is their standard departure and usually they avoid coming across any residential areas at all. Thibodeau stated that FAA regulations basically say that helicopters will avoid the flow of fixed wing traffic and that gives them a pretty wide margin. Thibodeau added that he felt that if local operators were notified when something happened they would probably correct the problem. Thibodeau stated they are willing to work with everyone and added that he felt that would be the way to deal with it. Bielefeld added that one of the owners lives close to Oskolkoff just off Birch Drive. Oskolkoff stated she didn't feel they were as much of a problem adding that she knew that they couldn't do anything because when she had called she was almost hysterical and they couldn't do anything. She added that all they could ask that they not let that be a subdivision. Teresa Werner-Quade stated she wanted to say that there were two mixed issues and she would like to speak again to the issue of the buffer strip. She added that she knows that sometimes political wheels turn very slowly. Werner-Quade stated she thinks this is something that the Airport Commission needs to look at right away and what she was asking that they recommend looking into an airport buffer zone. To look at those areas mentioned tonight and decide whatever side you want to take, Werner-Quade noted it is a matter of taking sides. Werner-Quade added that she hoped that every Commissioner would see the need for an airport buffer and take some action. Chairman Thibodeau asked if there was anyone else who would like to speak noting that they actually shouldn't be doing this and that it had turned into an open forum. Thibodeau added that this item had not been on the agenda for tonight's meeting adding that he didn't feel there was any motion that can be made tonight. Thibodeau added that it would be on the agenda for the next meeting. Airport Commission Minutes Page 1 7 May 9, 1996 1 0. Adjournment EDWARDS MOVED TO ADJOURN AT 8:30 P.M. MOTION SECONDED BY BIELEFELD. MEETING ADJOURNED. Resp~tfull/~/Submitted: MaPilyn Kebschull Administrative Assistant