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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1996-08-08 Airport Commission SummaryKENAI AIRPORT COMMISSION AGENDA August 8, 1996 at 7 p.m. City Hall Council Chambers Chairman Tom Thibodeau 1. Roll Call 2. Approval of Agenda 3. Approval of Minutes July 11, 1996 4. Persons Present Scheduled to be Heard 5. Old Business a. Recap 1. Float Plane Campground 2. Automated Fuel Facility 3. Alaska Regional Aircraft Fire Training Center 4. New Business a. Aires Consultants--Airport Master Plan, "Working Paper No. 2" 7. Airport Manager's Report 8. Commission Comments and Questions 9. Persons Present Not Scheduled To Be Heard 10. Information Items a. City Council Agenda (7/17/96) b. Letter dated 7/16/96 to Rebecca Godek c. "Notice of Meetings" and "Petitions" received 11. Adjournment Agenda August 8.do¢ KENAI AIRPORT COMMISSION August 8, 1996 * * * Minutes* * * UNAPPROVED 1. Roll Call Members Present: Members Absent: Others Present: Bonnie Koerber, Tom Thibodeau, Ron Holloway, Henry Knackstedt, Barbara Edwards, James Bielefeld None Airport Manager Randy Ernst, Administrative Assistant Marilyn Kebschull, Councilman Measles 2. APproval of A~lenda KNACKSTEDT MOVED FOR APPROVAL OF AGENDA. MOTION SECONDED BY EDWARDS. AGENDA APPROVED. 3. Approval of Minutes July 11, 1996 KNACKSTEDT MOVED FOR APPROVAL OF MINUTES OF JULY 11, 1996. MOTION SECONDED BY EDWARDS. MINUTES APPROVED. 4. Persons Present Scheduled to be Heard 5. Old Business a. Recap 1. Float Plane Campground Ernst advised campground tables are in. First camper last night. Ernst stated this year the plan is to leave the campground as is and work on burn pits for next year. 2. Automated Fuel Facility Ernst advised the facility is online and they have pumped approximately $1,000 worth, 500 gallons, through it. Advertisement started yesterday, on the radio and in the newspaper. Knackstedt advised he had heard the ad about 3:30 p.m. Ernst advised he had just proofed the ad this afternoon noting it will run three times a day for this month on the radio and in the newspaper on Wednesdays and Fridays this month. Airport Commission Minutes 2. Alaska Regional Aircraft Fire Training Center August 8, 1996 Page 2 Ernst advised they are requesting proposals for qualifications and interest for an engineering firm to design the facility. They have delivered a business plan to the FAA and are finalizing the phasing of the project and getting completing the preapplication. Ernst advised he thought tomorrow the FAA will be meeting with the state to finalize the 1 997 construction year budget and this will be put in to that year's budget along with the taxiway extension. Ernst advised the city will be obtaining an environmental assessment to obtain an AFONSI immediately. Thibodeau questioned if air taxis in Anchorage have been advised that the automated fuel is available especially with hunting season approaching. Ernst advised this has not been done but can be done. Thibodeau commented he felt they should be notified. Ernst stated that perhaps they could get a list and send out notifications. Edwards advised it is in the hunting ad in the local paper. Holloway advised they should be able to get it as a public service advertisement in King Salmon and perhaps in Fairbanks. 6. New Business a. Aires Consultants--Airport Master Plan, "Working Paper No. 2" Ernst introduced the following individuals: Freddi Comperchio and John Sanders of Aires; Phil Bryson of Wince, Corthell, Bryson; Patty Sullivan Planning Engineer of the FAA; Mr. Glick of the Planning and Zoning Commission; and, Keith Holloway, Airport Manager's Assistant. Ernst explained Sanders would recap Working Paper//1 and then provide information on Working Paper//2. Sanders recapped information from the first working paper. Stated the forecasts had become the basis for the requirements and alternatives. In 1 995, there were 1 30,000 enplaned passengers at the airport. Sanders defined enplaned as people departing Kenai to go to Anchorage. The forecast is for those to increase from 1 30,000 to 1 70,000. The aircraft operations based on the FAA tower counts which they run between 6 a.m. and 6 p.m. were nearly 80,000 in 1995. Sanders stated that is projected to 105,000 by 2015. Sanders advised they included 24 hour counts in projections as some activities take place when station closed. Sanders advised they weren't sure how much it was but FAA has provided some information on nighttime counts which was just received today. Sanders advised this will be helpful when the environmental work is done when generating noise contours for existing conditions and future conditions. It is important to identify all operations and especially the split between daytime and nighttime. Based aircraft are projected to increase from 100,000 to 1 20,000 over the planning period. With those forecasts, Aires has been developing requirements that go with those numbers and alternatives. The main runway length is 7575 feet. Sanders stated Airport Commission August 8, 1996 Minutes Page 3 they documented in the second working paper an analysis of lengths required of different types of aircraft. Sanders stated they found that the present length is adequate for all of those different types of craft. In the previous plan, a future length of 10,500 feet was discussed. Sanders stated that was proposed for international flights, particularly the cargo flights. At that time Anchorage and Fairbanks had runway lengths of about 10,500 feet that they were using for the refueling flights. Since that was done 10 years ago, Anchorage and Fairbanks have either lengthened or in the process of lengthening runways so they are up to 11,000 to 1 2,000 feet. If the idea was to be competitive with those types of activity, you would be looking at 11,000 or 1 2,000 feet. Sanders stated he was not sure of advantage to that in that it is unlikely you could justify the need to the FAA eyes in order to come up with the funding. The existing runway is long enough for the type of activity now and activity expected in the future. Sanders stated they have shown a requirement for modest extension to 8,000 feet for diversions because of weather or other reasons. Sanders stated that in talking with airlines you can accommodate up to 747 with 8,000 feet. Sanders stated that in terms of the water runway, the current length is 3500 feet. Based on input there appear to be some problems with that length being adequate for some of the heavier aircraft. Sanders stated an extension to 4,000 feet might be justified and would put it comparable to airports like Lake Hood. The current width is 1 50 feet. Sanders stated that current FAA criteria is a minimum of 200 feet. Sanders stated they are looking at up to 400 feet based on old criteria. On the old plan a parallel general aviation runway that was intended for small aircraft less than 1.2,500 that requires a length of 3500 feet and a width of 75 feet. Sanders stated they found in the capacity analysis, going back to forecasts, that the level of operations to year 2015 only amount to 45 to 50 percent of the capacity of a single runway. FAA uses criteria to start planning when at 60 percent capacity adding that this airport doesn't reach that level in the 20 year period. Thus, there isn't a requirement for a general aviation runway. Sanders added that they will address pros and cons of continuing to preserve that capability on the long-range plan. Sanders stated they had also looked at a grass strip to replace existing grass/ski strip with a short runway of about 1 200 feet or to try to accommodate as many tundra type aircraft with perhaps a 2400 feet runway. Sanders noted they will look at alternatives for this strip as well. In regards to the terminal with forecast activity with existing facilities, the building should be adequate through the 20 year planning period. Sanders noted they may require some modifications dependent on airlines that may come to the airport, size of airplanes they are using, etc. to accommodate specific needs. Sanders stated when looking at existing space and compare it to the design criteria and guidelines that FAA and others have, the 25,000 square feet should accommodate needs. Airport Commission August 8, 1 996 Minutes Page 4 Similarly with parking positions with four commuter aircraft parking places. Sanders stated that what we will see change is types aircraft and based on that will need more space. Based on input from airlines, they will phase out smaller aircraft which will be replaced with larger aircraft. Sanders advised in general aviation there is a lot of unused space in terms of tie downs and other facilities. So, there will be fairly modest increases in the general aviation requirements over the 20 year period. With regard to parking at the terminal with the forecast increase in passengers, we will need to go from 530 spaces to 700 spaces over the 20 year period. Sanders noted alternatives will be looked at later. Sanders explained there are a series of alternatives which are documented in Working Paper #2. Sanders stated they are not meant to be stand alone alternatives but alternatives that address a range of issues. Sanders noted they are looking for feedback, comments, and questions. Sanders stated that in the next phase they will look at schemes to include in the recommended plan. Sanders noted that they do not see the recommended plan as being either A, B, or C, or D but are expecting a piece of this and that in terms of runway lengths, number of runways, etc. Sanders noted he will discuss some of the issues related to the alternatives. FIRST ALTERNATIVE--Minimum Plan--Sanders stated this does the least in adding new features to the airport. It keeps the runway as it is except the south end is shortened by 200 feet. There is a requirement for runway safety areas which go off the end of the runway. For this type of airport, they should be 1000 feet. Here we can only get 800 feet before impacting the cemetery. To overcome that problem, this plan eliminates the last 200 feet of the runway. Sanders noted the existing length is long enough for existing aircraft and what is expected in the future. The float pond shows a modest improvement to the float pond. It is widened it to meet the FAA requirements (200 feet for runway portion and 1 50 feet to the side for taxi channel). Sanders stated they have shown a widening to 400 feet, but keep the length at 3500 feet. Sanders noted this could impact some of the larger aircraft. Sanders stated based on capacity we don't need a parallel paved runway so this alternative does not show one. It does show new grass strip to the north where there is currently a stockpile of dirt. Sanders showed where access would be to the grass strip. The other major improvement would be the extension of the taxiway to the end of the runway. Sanders stated for the type of the activity here now, the airport should have a taxiway that runs the full length of the runway noting we don't have it now, aircraft have to taxi on the runway which causes delays and other problems. Sanders stated this is a need that should be addressed Airport Commission August 8, 1996 Minutes Page 5 soon. Sanders stated they show it at a 400 foot separation which is the FAA requirement. Terminal area--Sanders stated they have looked at expansion of the commuter aircraft apron, parking facilities for automobiles, perhaps reserving areas for new hangars, new cargo facilities, and perhaps a new city maintenance facility. This scheme goes to access road (shown on overhead) and provides minimum amount of space in the long term for additional development. This scheme also shows space for the Alaska Regional Aircraft Fire Training Center which will be shown on all schemes. Knackstedt asked Sanders to explain the purpose for the two parallel taxiways at threshold. Sanders stated they are called bypass taxiways. In some airports, they will have a single taxiway at the end of the runway and then have a run up area off the side or along the taxiway. Another alternative is a bypass taxiway. Sanders stated they have shown that because they are showing a grass strip and didn't want to have a run up area into the runway protection zone. SECOND SCHEME--Shows more development. The runway length shown at the south end relocating the threshhold 200 feet for the reasons cited earlier. On the other end shows an extension of 625 feet. Sanders stated the new length would be 8,000 feet. In this case, the parallel taxiway, shown on the last scheme, would be extended all the way to the south end of 400 feet of the centerline. So, there would be a new parallel taxiway running the full length of the runway. Sanders explained that would be necessary in this scheme to put in a parallel runway of 3500 feet. To meet the necessary separations part of Taxiway C is not usable as a taxiway because it is needed for a runway. This scheme adds that runway and off the end shows the grass strip which is basically in the same area as before with a length of 2000 feet versus 1 200 feet in the earlier plan. Sanders stated the float pond includes not just the widening but on the west side a separated taxi channel. Sanders stated this calls for more improvements to the float pond than on the other plan with both longer lengths and different plans for handling the taxiing. Sanders stated that in both these schemes the commercial areas would remain as in the old Float Pond area using the existing facilities. Sanders stated in the old plan there was an extensive development for future float plane activity adding that in this plan they use the existing facilities at the south end. Sanders explained that if they extend the runway there is a requirement for 40 acres at the north end of the runway for what is known as a runway protection area. Sanders showed the area on the overhead. Sanders stated that at the south end of the airport there is also a runway protection zone. Sanders added that right now the existing zone only goes to this area(shows Airport Commission August 8, 1996 Minutes Page 6 on overhead). Sanders explained this is because you only have non-precision approaches to Runway 1 and if you ever go to GPS landings this would require larger protection zone which would extend south to the Kenai Spur Highway. Sanders noted that this development (shown on overhead) should not be in runway protection zones adding they will show an alternative that addresses this problem. ALTERNATIVE C--Sanders stated they have gone even further in terms of addressing the south end. In this case, to move runway protection zone to north of the highway and make sure that incompatible development is beyond it requires pulling the runway 800 feet to the north. Sanders stated there are tradeoffs noting that by pulling the area one way and expanding another way that would be outside the protection zone. This means more residential lots on the southwest side would come in to play. Sanders stated you need to look for a balance. To do that, coming in 800 feet, you would be looking at an extension of up to 1 200 feet to the north to maintain 8000 feet. Then you would be looking at 80 acres of land needed to acquire at north end. This scheme does not include the parallel paved runway as before. What it does is keeps the first part of the parallel taxiway extension (on first scheme) that is 400 feet from runway separation, keep existing taxiway (Charlie) and extend it to the south end. That doesn't waste existing pavement. Again, a grass strip. This scheme has a longer grass strip, up to 2400 feet. Terminal Area Options and Considerations--In regard to commuter aircraft, numerically the number of parking spaces may not change but over time the airport will likely have more of the 30 to 50 passenger aircraft than now. Spacing criteria between wing tips will be greater. To do this, they looked at relocating service road on the west side. This would do away with some of the problems with that road because at different times of the year this roadway is blocked meaning you can't get from the north end to the south end or vice-a-versa. This case shows a service road on the left side. In order to put in the space for the four aircraft and service road and to allow for C1 30 to taxi through they will need to widen the area by about 40 feet. Sanders explained what was shown on the overhead: commuter aircraft, terminal building (overall size adequate for needs), additional auto parking in several areas (across Willow, another 50 spaces at the south end where the rental cars are). (Sanders explained parking spaces shown on overhead.) Also shown a wash ramp at the southwest end but based on recent conversations it would probably be better at the northwest end. The area to the north would be primarily for the cargo area and there are several lease lots that are vacant which could be developed. Sanders commented that as noted earlier, the apron has been widened to handle larger aircraft through here and further to the north. Also shown is a site that the city is interested in developing for the Aircraft Fire Fighting Center and the city's maintenance area. Sanders added that they have looked at moving the helipad away from the apron. This would be just a landing and take off helipad. They would be either by the tower or in another scheme near the terminal. Sanders commented that in this scheme they had looked at things a little differently noting that part of the reasoning for this is to get people thinking what they might Airport Commission August 8, 1996 Minutes Page 7 like to see. This scheme looks a little beyond 2015. Sanders noted that this scheme looks at parking six commuter aircraft with additional passenger activity which may require some expansion of the passenger terminal. Sanders noted they are working on schemes now as to how this might best be accomplished. There is additional parking to expand parking area to the south and to use the area across Willow. Sanders stated if activity gets heavier, there may be a need to modify the terminal curbside to a one way system. Small itinerant aircraft to the south end and large itinerant aircraft to the north. Sanders stated they show some hanger space on some lease lots with additional land reserved to the north for more development and more lease lots as the needs arise. Sanders noted these are some of the alternatives that they would like to get into the master plan adding they would like comments and feedback on how others see the airport progressing. Sanders opened meeting to questions. Sanders showed another overhead, Alternative D, from old Master Plan which had up to 10,500 foot runway with additional land acquisition on north end. Parallel runway with expanding float plane facility. Sanders stated this was included so it could be used as a comparison to the other schemes. Thibodeau, questioned on the GPS approach, the reason to extend that far on C. Would that be for an approach to Runway 1. Sanders stated correct. Thibodeau asked if it would be necessary with runway 1 9. Sanders stated runway 1 9 is okay. Sanders added there is already a runway protection zone of that size. Sullivan advised there are published overlay approaches for the runway. The thing that increases the runway protection zone off the north end is for lower minimums. Sullivan noted that would be for stand alone GPS. Thibodeau asked if they were headed toward stand alone GPS' in the next 20 years. Thibodeau asked does FAA foresee that as needed. Sullivan stated GPS is being implemented nationwide but it may take longer in Alaska and definitely the way the FAA is going. Sullivan advised that the city needs to request that the FAA look at the capability of a stand alone GPS to Runway 1. Thibodeau stated that one of the reasons FPO's have not been interested in leasing the Float Plane Basin is that there is no access from the Float Plane Basin to the main taxiway system for wheeled aircraft. Sanders questioned if he meant other than the existing taxiway across. Ernst, showing on the overhead, that they would like to go around to that side of the basin by aircraft. Thibodeau stated that is where the leased lots would be and the hangers would be adding that somebody who was going to be a float plane operator in the summer but a wheeled operator in the winter, would need access to those hangers with some kind of taxiway system from the west side of the Float Plane Basin. Bielefeld stated that is pretty much wasted space now and no reason to develop it without access. Bielefeld added it is great land and probably a good place for general aviation. Thibodeau stated the people who will be primarily interested will be those who are general aviation operators and some 1 35 operators who will use the grass strip especially if it is a 2400 foot strip. It will require some access. Bielefeld stated at Lake Hood Airport Commission August 8, 1996 Minutes Page 8 they use the road system. Sullivan stated they are trying to get away from that practice. Bielefeld stated there is access all the way around Lake Hood to International adding that automobiles around aircraft do complicate things. Sanders clarified that they were talking about two taxiways, one around the north end and then another from depending upon where the end might be a connection across to tie into the north end of the airfield as well. Thibodeau stated that would be ideal, especially if we will have the separated taxiways with the possibility of FPO lease land from that taxi zone. Thibodeau explained further that the guys from the north end, if they have their hanger there, would rather come around the basin on the north side to get to the runway and people down south probably where the lease lots are available right now, would probably be the first ones leased because there are road systems there. Thibodeau stated he didn't know how that would be addressed without mixing cars with roads without going around the north end. Thibodeau added that the camping area is there also and it would seem like the only area would be to come around the north end. Ernst stated it would seem to be the best approach to come from the north and somehow connect to the top of the basin with a taxiway going into the road system and make the road system a taxiway instead of a road system and then parallel it with a road. Thibodeau stated that if you were going to lease the land to the water for FPO lots with what you are proposing as a taxi area, then you would want the taxiway on the north side of the lease lots rather than on the water side. Ernst stated you would maintain the integrity by making the taxiway either here or here and the road system would come either below it or above it. Ernst continued stating they had always envisioned that that area would probably cut water canals into it to open it up with 300 to 400 foot water fingers into those areas to open it up also. Ernst added that that is a possibility but it still doesn't solve the wheeled aircraft situation. Bielefeld commented that the taxiway is a way to get people to build over there adding if there is no construction over there, simply parking strips, then it is not really necessary. Bielefeld stated that if all the hanger construction is on the east side of the field, you wouldn't need it at all. Bielefeld commented he likes the idea of the fingers eventually adding that Lake Hood obviously needs more. Ernst noted there is already an increased interest in the facility and with the advertising and fuel on line that will become a plus. Discussion about the increased interest in the facility and how it will continue. Ernst stated need to decide what you want to do with that area and if you are going to try to accommodate wheeled aircraft there or try to maintain what is there now or to better it somehow by having the transition ramp into the basin where you switch from floats to wheels. Knackstedt asked if you were going to advertise lease lots over there, who will build over there if you don't have access? Knackstedt stated it will be seasonal and Thibodeau added that is where they are now. Thibodeau stated he feels that this is one of the things that should be looked over the 20 year plan as one of the options. Sanders stated they may be saying it may be more economical to develop area (shows on overhead) than this area (on overhead). Thibodeau noted that that is the area that is available now for lease. Ernst asked Thibodeau if he was suggesting that development be here rather than all the way down there? Thibodeau stated he was saying that eventually it will Airport Commission August 8, 1 996 Minutes Page 9 extend down there so as far as a taxiway for wheeled aircraft, thinking towards the future as it expands and keeping cars away from aircraft, the taxiway would be best coming around the north end of the Float Plane Basin. Thiobodeau continued saying unless he is missing something but it looks to him like the runway is slowing moving around to the north. Ernst, noting this may sound weird and hypothetical, noting that every airport that he has visited in the states has a road system under the taxiway and asked what be to weird about having an area from the transition area over and suggested a bridge that was wide enough for the aircraft to get to the other side. Ernst noted there is the infrastructure for the taxiway already to the main runway. Then, you would have the bridge going across the basin. Ernst stated it would be one way to get the aircraft there. Thibodeau (using the overhead) presented an alternative route which would require two bridges. Thibodeau showed where the camping is now noting there is a cleared area across the top of the bluff with a road area coming in. Thibodeau stated if there is anyway to cross that road and go back down across the bluff and then just have a small bridge crossing that road there, if would be a 200 to 300 foot cross across the Float Plane Basin. Holland added that wouldn't have to be a bridge, it could be a culvert. Sullivan stated the main issue is the desire to have access to the area available for lease on the west side of the float plane slips and the rest of the airports for operators who are switching between floats and wheeled aircraft to have a way to operate off both services. Sullivan added that is the main concern so as long as there is a way to address it and that they don't have to talk about the merits of a bridge, culvert, etc. just that this is a concern you would like to see addressed. Sanders stated you don't want a vehicular and aircraft crossing. Sullivan stated you can have controlled crossings. Sanders commented that coming around this way will be rather expensive. Holland stated that would be like a three mile road. Ernst commented that is why he doesn't think a bridge would be all that expensive. Sullivan noted that bridges are expensive. Holland noted it is wetlands. Bielefeld stated he would like to add that he likes the way the Float Plane Basin is shown in this overhead with the division, taxi channel. Bielefeld commented that the way it is now with a 20 knot wind you out of the north you cannot even turn around adding that a taxi channel would take care of that. Bielefeld explained that a float plane is literally a sailboat. Ernst stated that it had came up for the first time the other day and he had had a request to take off from the parking area because they couldn't get to the other end of the runway. Bielefeld reiterated that this portion of the plan looks good to him. Bielefeld continued noting that he has found the float plane basin is adequate for his use but traffic complicates life. Bielefeld commented that he felt that right now they were just getting started using the basin and he couldn't see pushing for the changes until the traffic is doubled. Sullivan asked what he meant by adequate and asked if he found it adequate in terms of length. Bielefeld stated he felt the one airplane that would find the Kenai pond inadequate is the Cessna 206 adding that everything else would deal with it fine. Knackstedt stated they had some difficulty getting off in a Beaver at flat wind with gross weight. Ernst asked if 500 feet is a realistic amount. Thibodeau stated there is a safety factor in case of reduced performance or any problems at take off and that at 3500 feet any aircraft should be able to deal with that adding that the extra 500 feet would be a safety factor. Airport Commission August 8, 1996 Minutes Page 1 0 Ernst asked if that included 206's and Thibodeau stated yes. Ernst explained that there is a reason he is asking that question because depending on how the taxiway extension works out they may try to incorporate the two. Bielefeld stated he recalls using a large chunk of Arness Lake one day in a loaded 206 and that is about 4000 feet. Bielefeld stated he wouldn't advocate lengthening the pond as it is but if they are going to do that excavation, the widening for the taxi channel and all of that, that would be a good time to extend the pond. Sanders asked which would be a priority, widening or lengthening. Consensus to go for widening. Thibodeau commented he felt the dirt from the widening could be used to make the additional FPO parking on the west side. Ernst stated he would have said just the opposite from comments that he has received input from users. Ernst noted this was good input. Holland advised Sanders that there were people present who may have input as to what they had discussed earlier in the day with the extension to the south. Sanders exPlained that schemes shown show an extension to the north. Sanders stated they had talked about adding 500 feet on the south and connecting to the float pond. Sanders stated this would mean moving the runway south 500 feet adding he wasn't sure that was the right way to go. Thibodeau stated he didn't think it would make a difference to the pilot taking off but asked if they would continue the number of current parking spaces. Ernst stated that was his concern. Ernst suggested the turnaround to the east but leave the taxi channel as it is. Thibodeau stated when you came out of the basin and enter the take off zone you could go left and go 3500 or go right and back taxi and have 4000 feet. Bielefeld stated that the pilot doesn't care where the channel is, but how long it is. (Group discussions about this option, pros and cons.) Sanders stated he was concerned about taxiing and using the water runway. Thibodeau stated the tower could determine usage for back taxiing. Ernst stated they could take off to the south and is essentially what is happening on the main runway. Ernst stated it is a thought noting they have always dealt with going to the north and there is no reason they couldn't go to the south. Knackstedt stated they would be closer to the access road for hauling material out. Thibodeau stated the advantage would be if you did decide to build the taxiway down the west side of the Float Plane Basin, there would be less feet you have to go to get to the end of it. Bielefeld, regarding the grass strip, if it is to be moved to the north end, needs to be 2000 feet adding that a ski strip needs to be about twice as long as a strip for wheels. Bielefeld explained how snowy and icy conditions inhibit landing. Ernst advised they had discussed this earlier. Ernst stated that he wanted to limit the grass strip to tail draggers. If it is extended to 2000 feet, it will open it up for people wanting to use it for other aircraft. Bielefeld commented that 1200 is great for wheeled aircraft. Ernst stated they have to have a ski strip that they can do something with. Knackstedt asked if there was an advantage of grass over gravel. Ernst stated it doesn't have to be grass adding that is just what they are calling it. Thibodeau commented that if they are talking about a second general aviation strip, that a gravel strip would open up use to 1 80's, 185's. Thibodeau commented they should start moving general aviation down toward the gravel strip. Most of the Airport Commission August 8, 1996 Minutes Page 1 1 general aviation would start using the gravel strip and leave the main strip for commuters. Sanders stated the estimated use of the gravel strip was 2 to 3 percent. Bielefeld stated he agrees that packing general aviation into the south end is awkward and the way the future hangers are drawn in, noted he has always liked the green strip. Bielefeld noted it is shelter for the aircraft parked to the south and to the north noting the trees would add considerable shelter. Ernst asked if 2000 feet was adequate for gravel. Group advised it was. Discussion about moving hangar development closer to the grass strip. Sanders clarified if they were talking about moving development this way (shown on overhead). Thibodeau stated that to encourage a person to have a hanger to work on his plane, he needs to be near the runway. Ernst stated the reason it has developed the way it has is that all of the larger aircraft were in for fish hauls and more and more it is looking like they will phase out, so it would be an idea to look at for future. Sanders noted that the apron really isn't wide enough for the larger aircraft with a taxiway and service area. Sanders noted that this type of feedback is what they are looking for. Sanders stated that on the last Master Plan, there wasn't a great interest in hangers. Discussion about the idea that people don't want to spend money on hangars. Bielefeld noted he had thought about putting hangers in at one point but found very little interest in hangers. Sullivan stated that Juneau has a fair amount of T-hangar development and Merrill Field is looking at right now. Sanders asked if they felt there wasn't a market for hangers? Bielefeld stated the reasonable cost for hangar rental would be $'100 to $200 per month adding that he has seen damage caused by the elements. Sullivan stated with Merrill looking at hangars you could reserve an area and see how it goes. Agreement that they should be located at the north end near the grass strip. Sanders noted that the people using the grass strip are those who are likely to need a hanger. Bielefeld stated regarding the displaced threshold on runway 1, commented that if that is what it takes to get a precision approach, noted he is all for it. Bielefeld stated there are many days that they should be using runway 1 with instrument approach because of the winds out of the north and Iow weather noting that he has used runway 1 9 in excess of 20 knots of tail wind because that was the only choice he had other than to leave the plane in Anchorage. Bielefeld commented that a precision approach to runway 1 would be a very nice thing. Thibodeau asked Sullivan about the minimums required by FAA now and asked how long they have been in place and if this will be enough area in 20 years. Sullivan stated that in some cases the dimensions for runway protections zones the area has actually been reduced with more accurate instrumentation. Sullivan added there has been a move to reduce the zone rather than make it larger. Sullivan stated her guess, based on that tendency, that the size would be adequate. Sanders stated these dimensions have been in effect for many years. Sullivan stated it is difficult to get sufficient land zone controls with zones in effect now adding that if it were to increase there would be a lot of impact nationwide. Sullivan added there are other things that dictate minimums. Airport Commission August 8, 1996 Minutes Page 1 2 Bielefeld noted he has not seen the possibility of a diagonal taxiway adding that would expedite operations for the tower. Sanders stated they have looked at where they should be adding that there may be a need for some additional ones depending upon where the runways end up. Sanders stated that some of those high speed taxiways do not give you as much as you think and given the type of aircraft at this airport, some aircraft will have to accelerate. Bielefeld noted he uses them at International all the time. Knackstedt stated the taxiway extension being 400 foot separation from the center line and asked if it will change eventually if there is a category change. Sanders stated no that for the type of aircraft being talked about, through the C1 30's and the air carrier/air craft who divert here. Thibodeau asked about 8000 feet length being adequate for 747 and wondered about width. Sanders stated 1 50 feet is the standard. Thibodeau commented that perhaps the runway lights need to be moved out a little further. Ernst stated they were out another 15 feet beyond the edge. Discussion as to whether 10 or 15 feet. Holland commented that they weren't in pavement before. Ernst stated the north end was the only one in pavement until the last overlay. Holland noted that now they are paved 15 feet outside the runway. Bielefeld commented that he felt the only complication would be the amount of dust kicked up by the jets noting he had watched a jet today at Anchorage International on 6 Left. Sullivan noted that 6 Left does not have standard safety area beyond the end and there is a project in 1 997 to extend the runway safety area for 6 Left. Thibodeau stated that several places mention lighting on the Float Plane Basin would not be needed but would like to see threshold lighting. Thibodeau noted that he has been in situations, particularly during hunting season, when lighting would be nice. Sanders stated if you had a 200 foot channel with the island separating the taxi channel it would be easy to light it with edge lights. Ernst stated they had talked about center lighting. Ernst stated that they had discussed threshold lighting noting there is power on both ends and that shouldn't be too expensive. Sanders stated that earlier Bryson had mentioned that if you are looking at extending beyond the present length in order to get 4000, in extending this way, because the terrain is so much higher, you might actually have to excavate more than just the 4000 feet to meet the 20 to 1 approach slope. You would actually have extra space beyond the official runway length. Bryson stated the water surface set down relative to the south end, the north end water surface is about ten feet lower compared to the ground. The south end governs the surface. Sullivan, noting she was wanted to make sure she understood, the excavation to taper in the approach slope, so where the water starts would still be close to whatever the threshold is. Sullivan stated that is just getting through the logistics of placing the threshold lights. Sanders added and in designating where the actual end of the Water runway is. Thibodeau referring to Page 4-2 which talks about airport access and parking looking at public parking going from 370 up to 400, 430, 460, to 500 and Airport Commission August 8, 1 996 Minutes Page 1 3 employee parking going from 36, 40, 45, 50, to 60. Continuing, and the rental car parking going from its present 137 to 110 to 1 20 to 1 30 and at 2015 being back to 140. Sanders stated as they understand it there is some rental car spaces not used and there is some surplus space. Sanders added it is more a function of the agreement between the airport and rental companies than any requirements. Sanders noted that in some airports you will have few rented return cars this close to the terminal. As space is needed, may require rental cars moving away and using buses or vans to return to the terminal. Sanders noted this was based on discussions and observations and (using overhead) noted that this lot is not fully used. Koerber asked if they were talking about the open space at the grassy lot or at the pavement part. Ernst explained the expansion would be the grass area. Ernst explained where the extra spaces in the rental area were. Ernst noted that each car rental agency has from the west going to the east, 1 5 spaces that the city has given them. Ernst stated there are additional 6 spaces that are not used because it requires additional payment. Those don't ever seem to be filled so there are those five spaces, 6 rows, which is 30 spaces. Koerber asked if they were considering putting the public in there and Ernst stated no. Ernst stated they were just saying that it would stay adequate for a very long time adding that with one agency gone, it makes it even more adequate. Comperchio explained they are preparing environmental assessment on these projects identified based on the previous master plan. First one is the extension of Float Plane Facility to 4000 feet and widening it to 400 feet. The second, extension of parallel taxiway and the third is relocation of the grass strip. Comperchio explained they are in the scoping process. They have done a wetland functional assessment on northern part. The field work is done. Comperchio stated they are just getting into doing the environmental assessment. One of the things just received is the aircraft noise analysis for the existing and the future to update noise contours. They are also working on the land use compatibility. The next time we are here it should be pretty much complete. Holloway asked if they see any major problems on the wetlands. Comperchio stated not based on the functional they are considered to be of Iow value and that primarily all of these areas have already been disturbed previously. So, there should not be any real controversy coming out of the wetlands. Knackstedt asked if any previous military development in the northern area from the 40's. Freddi stated that she was not aware of any and asked what he meant. Thibodeau stated it was build as a military airfield initially. Knackstedt added there was a base there. Phil Bryson stated that the old runway nominally aligned a dead end with Taxiway C where it is parallel to the runway. It terminated before you get beyond the end. Knackstedt stated that a statement had been made that there were other areas that were disturbed adding that he didn't know how they were disturbed other than the three and four wheeler tracks. Bryson stated that generally it consisted of dozers walking down trails. Ernst stated that this will be complete by the time they go to grant for the extension of the taxiway and the possible extension of the Float Plane Basin. It depends whether we put it as part of Airport Commission August 8, 1996 Minutes Page 1 4 the project for the grass strip adding the plan had always been to have that area as stockpile as the new grass strip relocation. Sullivan clarified that the funding request for the 97 program for Kenai is the parallel taxiway extension. Sullivan added that there probably would be additional development costs associated with the grass strip and completing the Float Plane plan facility that is not in the program for 97. Ernst stated they are doing the environmental for all of them so that it would not be necessary to wait for an environmental. Sanders stated he felt input had been helpful that rather than widening it to 400 feet that maybe physically separating it into a water runway and a taxi channel. Bielefeld stated that otherwise the wake would be upsetting adding he didn't think the tower would even allow two aircraft to pass, one taxiing and one taking off. Thibodeau stated they allowed it in Juneau. Sanders advised he would like to get consolidated comments in the next two weeks. Sanders stated he felt the best way to get them to Aires is through Ernst. Sanders stated the next step would be to come up with a draft plan and if they have ideas they want them to be aware of to get the information to them. Sanders stated they have come up with cost estimates for each of these items but they don't mean a lot because they will be phased. Need to prioritize for 5, 10, 20 year programs. Sanders stated that if anyone has questions, to contact them. Sullivan advised that if anyone knows any users that Ernst has copies of the reports which they can have for comment. Knackstedt clarified if they would like comment in written form. Comperchio suggested they make comments on the report and copy them to them. Thibodeau stated he thought they had covered everything tonight and clarified that they had that information. Knackstedt asked if they summarized the notes in some kind of written form so they could see what was discussed. Sanders stated they usually try to list the key points. Ernst asked Kebschull if specifics were being recorded. Kebschull advised that the transcription was difficult because they were pointing to the overhead and stating, "over here," etc. Kebschull advised the notes contained the general information. Bielefeld stated concerning the paved general aviation runway in proposal B and C, advised he would like to go on record stating it doesn't have much merit. Bielefeld added he doesn't know of many people interested in it and would hate to see money spent on it. Sanders stated it will not happen because Kenai does not meet the criteria. Sanders explained the 60 percent criteria is when you start planning and it is another five to ten years after that before you can get support from the FAA. Holland stated that is another reason why they haven't considered the extension. Holland clarified he was talking about the parallel taxiway. Sanders stated he felt that was something that they had been eligible for years and years adding he was surprised that hasn't taken place by now. Sullivan asked if Sanders wanted to talk about the reserve area. Sanders stated the Master Plan is for 20 years periods. In this case looking at 2015. Beyond that, Airport Commission August 8, 1996 Minutes Page 1 5 what are you going to need. That is why there is reserved space on each of the schemes that is not known about now. Sanders thanked everyone and stated it had been extremely helpful. 7. Airport Manager's Report Nothing additional. 8. Commission Comments and Questions 9. Persons Present Not Scheduled To Be Heard 10. Information Items a. City Council Agenda (7/17/96) b. Letter dated 7/16/96 to Rebecca Godek c. "Notice of Meetings" and "Petitions" received Knackstedt clarified that the petitions were not legal--Kebschull advised that Attorney had stated for information only. 11. Adjournment Knackstedt moved for adjournment. Motion seconded by Bielefeld. Adjourned at approximately 8'48 p.m. ? ~ ctf,~/submitted' . M~ril,~ Administrative Assistant