HomeMy WebLinkAbout1998-11-12 Airport Commission SummaryKENAI AIRPORT COMMISSION
NOVEMBER 12, 1998
Kenai City Council Chambers
Tom Thibodeau, Chairman
***AGENDA'"
ITEM 1' CALL TO ORDER AND ROLL CALL
ITEM 2' AGENDA APPROVAL
ITEM 3'
APPROVAL OF MINUTES - October 8, 1998
ITEM 4: PERSONS SCHEDULED TO BE HEARD
ITEM 5' OLD BUSINESS
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Discussion -- Professional Services Agreement/City of Kenai &
James E. Carter, Sr. -- Professional Consulting Services at the
Kenai Municipal Airport for the Project Called "Airport Expansion
and Development--A User Interest Survey."
ITEM 5'~ NEW BUSINESS
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Discussion -- Payless Car Rental Request/Counter Space in
Airport Terminal.
ITEM 7: AIRPORT MANAGER'S REPORT
a.
10/98 Kenai Municipal Airport Enplanements
ITEM 8:
COMMISSIONER COMMENTS AND QUESTIONS
ITEM 9: PERSONS NOT SCHEDULED TO BE HEARD
ITEM 10: INFORMATION ITEMS
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Kenai City Council Meeting Action Agenda -- October 7, 21 and
November 4, 1998.
ITEM 11: ADJOURNMENT
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KENAI AIRPORT COMMISSION
NOVEMBER 12, 1998 - 7:00 P.M.
KENAI CITY HALL
CHAIRMAN THOMAS THIBODEAU
*** MINUTES ***
CALL TO ORDER AND ROLL CALL
Chairman Thibodeau called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m.
Members Present: Bob Favretto, Tom Thibodeau, Ron Holloway, Henry
Knackstedt
Members Absent: James Bielefeld, Dan Van Zee, Lucy Lorenzen
Also Present:
Airport Manager Steve Atha, Councilman Ray
Measles, Contract Secretary Alison Rapp.
APPROVAL OF AGENDA
Chairman Thibodeau requested the letter from Mr. James Carter, dated
November 10, 1998, be added to the agenda at Item 5a.
KNACKSTEDT MOVED TO APPROVE THE AGENDA. MOTION
SECONDED BY HOLLOWAY. THE AGENDA WAS APPROVED WITH
THE ADDITION TO ITEM SA.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES - October 8, 1998
HOLLOWAY MOVED TO APPROVE THE MINUTES OF OCTOBER 8,
1998. MOTION SECONDED BY KNACKSTEDT. MINUTES WERE
APPROVED AS WRI~EN.
PERSONS SCHEDULED TO BE HEARD - None
OLD BUSINESS
Discussion -- Professional Services Agreement/City of Kenai
and James E. Carter, Sr. -- Professional Consulting Services at
the Kenai Municipal Airport for the Project Called "Airport
Expansion and Development -- A User Interest Survey."
11/10/98 James E. Carter, Sr. Letter "Declining the Contract
to Assist the City with its Expanded Airport Fact Finding
Project."
Chairman Thibodeau opened the discussion about Mr. Carter's
letter withdrawing his services and noted the project to study the
KENAI AIRPORT COMMISSION
NOVEMBER 12, 1998
PAGE 1
airport expansion was off at this time. Favretto commented he
was curious what the public comment would be and would like to
hear what Mr. Carter had to say. Holloway commented he was
sadly disappointed but understood Mr. Carter's frustration.
Holloway noted the study was misinterpreted as a project to move
the airport rather than strictly a feasibility study. Knackstedt
commented he also understood Mr. Carter's withdrawal. He
noted the contract in its present form was stifling and the scope of
work had been changed significantly. Knackstedt further
commented he was of the understanding the City Council was in
agreement with the previous contract.
Chairman Thibodeau commented the study was pro-development
and that is what is needed in Kenai. He noted with declining oil
revenues, studies were needed to find alternative sources of
revenues. Chairman Thibodeau commented on the article in the
newspaper stating larger jets would be landing at the airport. He
noted larger jet service would require relocation of the airport.
Chairman Thibodeau reiterated this was just a study to see what
opportunities were out there, not a plan to move the airport. He
noted the high unemployment rate and stated the Airport
Commission and the City Council had a responsibility to look for
ways to create jobs. Chairman Thibodeau expressed a desire to
determine why this study failed after it received initial
Commission and Council approval.
Chairman Thibodeau opened the item for public comment.
Verbatim Beans
Rick Ross, City Manager, Kenai, Alaska Mr. Chairman, my
name is Rick Ross with the City of Kenai. Possibly by giving a
time line as to what occurred it might be a little helpful at this
time. In your packet you have much of the information I am §oin§
to be referring to, in your Airport Packet.
On June the 3~a, this did come to the City Council. And if you
look at the minutes, it advised how the administration intended to
proceed, that we intended to phase the project and it lists three
phases essentially. Ahh... The first being the survey of interest.
Getting that information it involved from (garbled) coming back to
the public, public hearings, so forth. At that time it was also
referred to the Airport Commission. It appeared before this
Commission on June the 1 l t~, mainly to listen to your comments
to further address scope of work and the proposal that Mr. Carter
had submitted.
KENAI AIRPORT COMMISSION
NOVEMBER 12, 1998
PAGE 2
Mr. Carter's proposal was very interesting to the Council, it was in
lieu essentially of what we normally go out and do an RFP. This
came to us as essentially an RFP from him.
It came to the Airport Commission, if you look at the testimony of
the administration for the Airport Commission, it was essentially
the same as that on June the 3~a.
On June the 17t~ it went back to the City Council, at that time the
City Council was advised, we had been advised by FAA, there was
a very good question whether or not we could use airport moneys
for this project. The City Council put it on hold at that time until
we had that answer.
All through July there was exchanges of letters with FAA,
telephone calls trying to ascertain whether or not we could use
airport funds in this manner. They changed desks up there at
that time which further delayed it. When the new Airport
Manager reported in August, he went to Anchorage and dealt with
the FAA on the issue and got it resolved. We could in fact spend
airport funds for the project.
On September the 2n~l, an ordinance was introduced appropriating
the funds on the Consent Agenda to fund this project. On
September the 16t~, that ordinance was passed appropriating the
funds. The approval of Mr. Carter's contract was postponed at
that time because Mr. Carter was ill and was not at that meeting.
It was set over for October the 2n(i.
In the interim, it's my understanding that you, on the
Commission, received copies of the contract so that if you chose
to have a special meeting, before the October 7t~ Council Meeting,
to address the contract you could. Which did not occur.
On October the 7t~, there was a Council Meeting, ahh.., significant
amount of public input, in which rightfully so, we were criticized
because the scope of work was more a list of tasks instead of a
broad scope of work. It listed tasks that go into performing that
work. And there was a misunderstanding on the part of the
public based upon that document as to what was in fact taking
place. The phasing that was in the June 3~a Council Minutes was
not reflected in the scope of work.
At that time, Mr. Chairman, on October the 7t~, you requested
that it come back to the Airport Commission, which the first
meeting it could do so was tonight, November the 12t~. Umm... on
the 9t~, I met with you, Mr. Carter, I believe Mr. Van Zee and the
Finance Director, if I recall correctly. There was four or five of us.
KENAI AIRPORT COMMISSION
NOVEMBER 12, 1998
PAGE 3
There was a couple of minor things in language changes within
the contract that I considered minor. But in order to clear up
misunderstandings we cleared them up to free the flow. One was
deleting the writ consent to proceed but making.., proceeding
based upon having received documentation of prior work and
scope for the next job.
On the 26th, this re-written, and at that time you were advised the
scope of work would be more broadly written to reflect the
phasing of the project was faxed to Mr. Carter. On November the
4th it was provided to Council in an info packet. It was also put in
your packet for tonight's meeting. And that essentially is what
has taken place since June the 3~a. We lost two months until
Council had a feeling from where the funding source was going to
come from with FAA. The delay since October the 7th essentially
was at your request to bring it back to ahh... Airport Commission.
At this time I'll take any question you might have.
Ch~itm~ Thibod~u: Okay, umm, I have a question for you.
Mr. Ross: Sure
Chairman Thibodeau: On the.., umm part of I think what
happened here was a lot of change in wording in this contract.
Ahh that really created the delays it seems like. Ahh there was
the original contract as it came from Mr. Carter was, as you said,
it came from him, it was a different way of doing it. Umm, and it,
you felt it needed to be changed somewhat. I noticed that in the,
let's see here, the Airport Commission Meeting on June 3rd, yOU
stated, ahh... Ross responded interviews for the new Airport
Manager will take place within the next couple weeks. Once hired
the Manager will concentrate his efforts at developing the existing
airport and not be involved by the research presented by Carter.
And, I think the, there was some comment that the Airport
Manager, we should wait, and the Airport Manager should be
brought into this somewhat. Ahh I think that, ahh.., ahh there
was also comment that at this time ahh.., to bring somebody new,
you know that that was new to the airport itself and to the City. It
would be, I think, way overwhelming to ask that person, way
overboard to ask him to be involved in something like this.
Especially when he's had to get involved in a new airport and to
deal with that. Ahh... and, however what came out of it, the
contract got changed to a way it wouldn't work. And we've gone
back and forth on that, and I think that is what the problem has
been. My comments.
KENAI AIRPORT COMMISSION
NOVEMBER 12, 1998
PAGE 4
Mr. Ross: Okay, it was never my intent that the Airport Manager
would be duplicating the work of Mr. Carter in any way shape or
form. The contract in Contract Administration, and we've worked
with this language, I've worked with you with it, Mr. Carter also,
is the consultant reports to somebody in the administration. The
consultant does not report to this Board or to Council because
then all of sudden they are responding to 15 individuals and
consultant has to report to somebody for receiving the City's
direction, or if they have questions, to receive direction. What
better person for the consultant on the airport to report to is the
Airport Manager? Now if he didn't have the resources, or felt
inadequate because of time on the job, then he has resources to
refer to. But as a matter of course, this is what we do in all of our
consulting contracts. If you are consulting for legal, you report to
the Attorney. If you're consulting for police, then you report to
the Police Chief. And that's why the contract was structured the
way it was.
Chairman Thibodeau: We could go on, I'm sure, quite a bit about
that. The... the.., the end result it was a lot more than just
reporting involved in there, there was goals and things like that.
A lot of wording that eventually.., that some of it got changed and
when it did there were other parts of it that got changed as well
that created more. But... ahh.., regardless of it, the fact of the
matter is that we had.., had one to start with and we don't now.
We had a contract in the beginning that seemed to be okay with
some massaging, but.
Does anybody else have any other comments on that? That's
pretty much what I have to say. I'm very disappointed at ahh.., at
this point that we're not going forward with a study.
Mr. Ross: Chairman, I think that you're continuing with your
hearing tonight is appropriate. My recommendation to Council is
going to be that I think this is worth pursuing. I think Mr.
Carter's correct, it is worth pursuing. At this time they can either
look at doing an RFP, and I would suggest to them that it be on
the first three phases of the scope of services. And this is as
much in compliment to Mr. Carter as anything else, but there's
two different skill sets: Going out and doing that one research and
then coming back and doing the lobbying. And, there's also a
built in conflict if you're.., if you go out and get a cold lobbyist,
where I didn't feel comfortable with Mr. Carter in this role. I
would feel uncomfortable recommending to Council, let's go out
and contract with this person to bring us the facts and show us
the financial viability of an operation. And by the way, on the tail
end of the contract, they're going to do the lobbying for it, too.
There is the potential for skewed results. In Mr. Carter's case, I
KENAI AIRPORT COMMISSION
NOVEMBER 12, 1998
PAGE 5
didn't feel uncomfortable with.., with putting that in one contract.
But in the next one to Council I am going to recommend we break
it up.
Chairman Thibodeau: Okay, any other comments?
you. (Indication from gallery) Mr. Schrag?
Okay, thank
Mark $chrag~ Kenai~ Alaska My name is Mark Schrag, I don't
understand why you think the study is dead. I mean you just had
one person that's backed out. You can go ahead with the study,
put it out to bid. So I don't quite understand that, I think it's
worth pursuing, you just had somebody back out, you know. For
$100,000 I can't imagine you're not going to get some bids on this
or something like that. So I don't think you need to, you know,
talk about it being dead. Go ahead with the study or so.
Chairman Thibodeau: Okay
Mr. $¢hrag: That's my interest, put it out to bid.
Chairman Thibodeau: Well that's.., that's a great suggestion and
that may be the way we go. Thank you.
Rebecca Lambourn~ Kenai~ Alaska It seems to me that there is
negative opinion here of the fact that in the interim, the public
found out about what was being proposed, and I personally think
that's a very good thing, that we found out what was being
proposed in this contract. And, therefore, we became concerned
and we got involved and perhaps, due to that concern we objected
to some of the points in the contract as it was proposed before,
and as the City Manger's pointed out, the proper RFP process was
not gone through on this. And also, we were all very
uncomfortable about Mr. Carter, whose umm vision it seems to
be, were to perform a feasibility or market survey of potential air
carriers and do the lobbying and be responsible for the impact on
this community. And that has been our major objection to this. I
don't speak for everybody here obviously, but some of us who
have gotten together to discuss this. So tonight, umm.., we are
very excited that there is so many people from the public who are
involved who want to know what is going on. And I think the
right thing happened here that this whole process came to a halt.
And that, we're going to stop and look at this and say, well, how
should this proceed? And I hope that you all are thrilled that
there is so many people in the community that want to be a part
of this. Umm...
I also am a little concerned about the comments I hear over and
over again umm.., about the fact we have a noise problem in the
KENAI AIRPORT COMMISSION
NOVEMBER 12, 1998
PAGE 6
City right now. Between the C-130's and the umm... AWAC jet
that comes in and out of here and umm... I've spoken to the
Airport Manger before about this. He has made some phone calls
on our behalf, and they seem very unwilling to work with us as far
as changing some of their flight patterns, so that they aren't right
over our neighborhood. They could do that, they could be out
making their tums over the Inlet instead of coming down
Woodland or down Forest and taking a right right over the top of
my house. They could do that, but they aren't listening. Umm...
so the solution to that I am being told, is, well, let's move the
airport a couple of miles to the North and bring in jumbo jets.
That is not a solution to a noise problem. And that is what has us
concerned. Umm we have gone over the new contract that is
being proposed tonight very carefully and we came tonight with
some handouts, to give out to the Commission here and also to
present to the Kenai City Council, which outlines the way we
think this whole procedure should go ahead, if the Commission
and the City Council were to decide to go ahead with this. And,
it's umm.., basically umm goes back to the RFP process, it
includes a feasibility market study, and community impact study
done concurrently. And, I'm going to quit talking here because
someone else is going to present that to you now.
(Discussion in the gallery. Ms. Lambourn passed out the memo
dated November 12, 1998 addressed to the Airport Commission
and the Kenai City Council regarding the proposed changes to Mr.
Carter's contract)
Jill Lipka, 1606 Salmo, Kenai, Alaska I live in Kenai, our...
our... Rebecca, are we handing these out signed?
(Comments from gallery)
Ms. I,ipka: It's... it's pretty basic. On Page One we're starting
about umm.., the proposed changes to Mr. Carter's contract,
which is kind of a no-issue now that it's not an issue. Umm we
really felt that the RFP process would have been a good idea. We
weren't really clear on how this contact came about, whose idea it
was, etc. etc. We've had some clarifications since the beginning of
the meeting on that process. Umm... but we think that that
would have been a great way, you know, put it out to bid. Umm I
heard Mr. Holloway, I believe is your name, state earlier that this
has never been called an expansion nor, make sure that I am
hearing you right, or development contract? Is that what I heard?
Holloway: I said expansion of the local airport.
KENAI AIRPORT COMMISSION
NOVEMBER 12, 1998
PAGE 7
Ms. Lipka: Okay, maybe I was hearing you wrong. We'll go on
with that. We kind of felt that umm.., that this wasn't being
called for what it was. That the name was even misleading on the
contract, The ahh.., it was called airport expansion and
development, a user interest survey. We felt that that was kind of
an odd, vague, it seemed to us it was more like a market.., it
seemed to me that it was more like a market interest ahh...
survey. It didn't have anything to do with the.., the people user
interest, the people of Kenai were.., they were we being surveyed
on this? So... ahh.., recognize the contract currently titered...
titled airport expansion and development, a user interest survey
for what it is, it is an economic market survey of industrial carr...
air carriers as potential customers for an expanded airport facility.
Umm... We just felt that was kinda a odd way of putting it.
Another thought that had gone through our minds, or my mind,
was that there was no interest in seeing what the community,
what the impact on our community would be. I mean you were
going to go through but you weren't going to check to see what
the community thought, what kind of impact it would have on us.
Umm... you can read through the paperwork there. We had an
idea that maybe a concurrent study or survey could be going
along at the same time as Mr. Carter's contract, and we had a list
of... of things that would be in the scope services for such a study.
A community impact study. Umm... the first would be the impact
of air pollution, frequent take offs, revving up and landings the
emissions there.
The general health effects on the population living near busy
jumbo jet airports. And I do believe jumbo jets were talked about,
it was stated cargo, I believe that had been stated much to what I
heard differing tonight, but umm.., there is increases of all sorts
of things, cancers, heart disease, respiratory illness, mortality
rates, mental illness, we could go on.
The 3~a, the impact of chronic exposure to airport noise. They've
done many studies about the impact on children, umm.., you
know stress hormone responses in their urine can be measured,
etc. They've done some great studies, studies that are already out
there for the public's viewing.
Umm... impact of contaminated water from de-icers, what have
you, all those great things, on surface as well as ground water.
Umm... The impact on population demographics, umm.., and
potential relocation of the current Kenai population living in the
neighborhoods near the expanded or relocated airport.
KENAI AIRPORT COMMISSION
NOVEMBER 12, 1998
PAGE 8
The impact on healthy cultural functioning in neighborhood
communities near the airport. Impact on property values and
potential tax revenue decline.
And you can go on down the list here, safety of the citizens and
homes near an airport that may be used for emergency landings.
That was one of the things Mr. Carter had so eloquently ahh...
kind of championed there, that this was for a matter of safety.
Umm... and the impact of potential changes in the population...
oh, we've already got that one I think.., on existing small
businesses. You know, we're gonna have jumbo jets flying over
head. What's that going to do tourism? Quality of life?
Umm... legal implications, potential lawsuits from residents living
near an expanded airport. The impact on cultural and education
facilities near the airport, such as churches or schools. And the
impact on wildlife, the habitat, wetlands, etc.
See if I go through my notes here, I thought it was interesting in
the contract they had a note there on lobbying. And it had been
so insisted that this was not a lobbying effort however, you know,
in the contract itself it says lobbying. Umm... the possibility that
he may need to register, I thought that was pretty fascinating.
And... see if there's one more thing... So anyway, the point being
that I think I'm very please that he has decided to not go ahead
with the contract. Umm... if you indeed do decide to go through
with it with.., using someone else, the RFP process would be
great. Bring it in for some bids. Umm... and I think that I can
speak for many people in thinking we should have an impact
study done on the community itself. And... ahh that's it.
Chairman Thibodeau' Thank you very much, Mrs. Lipka.
Holloway: I think she left off one thing, that's ahh.., death by
starvation.
(Commotion)
William Phillips, 108 Stinker, Kenai, Alaska I guess after the
last two ladies I've heard, I should put my head in the sand and
forget all about it. But ahh.., we can't do anything anytime
anywhere. But unfortunately, that's not very realistic. Ahh... my
daughter graduated from high school here in 1984. Of all the top
graduates in that class, there's only still working in this.., working
in this town, and that one just happened to be because she
became and is now working for.., over here for Carr's. There are a
dearth of long-term stable good paying jobs in this area. Now I
KENAI AIRPORT COMMISSION
NOVEMBER 12, 1998
PAGE 9
know last year, earlier this year, the politicians were out touting
this module project as the end-all and befall. But if you read the
fine print, most of the jobs are going to be from one to six months.
You can't build an economic future on jobs that are one to six
months long. So our kids are getting up and leaving. We won't
have to worry about our kids suffering from the noise pollution,
'cause they~l all be gone as soon as they're old enough to leave.
Ahh... so you know, realistically, this is an excellent opportunity,
it has existed for years. I saw that one day when Anchorage
Airport was socked in, and there's still a picture somewhere in the
Clarion on the front page with a jumbo jet sitting behind the
airport terminal dwarfing our little terminal. Now, a new airport
built out away from the city, first off, nobody lives out there.
Their main flight path could in fact be to take off towards the
mountains. One of the main problems they have now in
Anchorage with the noise problems is when those jumbos take off
from Anchorage Airport, if they can't go out over the water, they
come out over the city, they have to climb very rapidly because
the mountains are so close to the airport. They cannot take a
long gentle roll out and then make a gradual turn up. They just
can't do it. That's one of the reasons why they're having problems
in Anchorage.
Now, there is no doubt that the air freight is going to increase, it
already has. Anchorage actually can't handle what it is now.
Now, a few years ago, they were talking about well.., they would
run the routes through Russia. Russia is too unstable. Why do
you think they're all interested in us now? Because it is a
difficult, if not impossible to do business in Russia because the
conditions change every day. Give you a specific example, when
Kenai Peninsula College ran some educational por.., programs
over on Sakland Island, when they took educational materials
over, all of a sudden there was a tremendous import fee on
educational materials. Bingo! So, Russia is not a viable option.
Now, Fairbanks there... I think they're all.., starting the runs...
starting to make the runs to Fairbanks now. But, there are
climate differences, and this is a much more livable area than
Fairbanks and it's all.., ev... it's going to be easier to maintain,
repair and take care of the equipment in a climate like ours where
yeah just a 45 below very rare, 45 below very common in
Fairbanks. So we have definite advantages. And yes you can take
off and through that way.
As far as noise pollution in this town is concerned, folks one of
the main polluters for noise pollution in this town has nothing to
do with our own airport. It's the air taxi services operating Beaver
KENAI AIRPORT COMMISSION
NOVEMBER 12, 1998
PAGE 10
floatplanes out of the lakes around Soldotna. I know because
they fly over my head all summer long. They fly in groups of one
to five. You know, they keep me awake.., they wake me up in the
morning, they keep me awake at night. All your objections here
are not going to solve that problem at all. So that's, you know,
the noise pollution, the noise problems, if you build a new airport
runway, out away from the populated areas of the City and give
them the opportunity to take off where they don't have to make
those sharp turns they make at Anchorage and or in various large
cities where the population moved around the airports, and then
they moved the airports further out, then the population moves
out towards the airport. The... are.., where this.., where we can
build the airport, we're not going to move a population base out
there, because the rest of it is going to be surrounding swamps
and most people don't want live in a swamp given a choice.
Realistic.
Now, our local economy, let's get realistic about it. The module
project, those are basically part time jobs. Now if you're doing all
your reading, you also know that Uno-Cal has put its chemical
division up for sale, because the market for their product has
strong competition from Asia. As soon as they can get Indonesia
stable, Indonesia's an excellent source of natural gas, right close
to tide water and warm climate, a good competitor. What also you
don't know is that a competitor of Uno-Cal's chemical division,
named Simplot, had originally planned to build a large plant,
similar to what we have here, in North Eastern Nevada. Market
conditions caused that to be canceled. So that plant is at risk. In
the mid-80's there was serious consideration of shutting that
plant down then, because of competition. The oil industry in the
Inlet is in decline. We're not going to have any big booms here.
Drive out to North Road and look at those empty factory
buildings. We need jobs for our children and our grandchildren.
This would be a stable source of jobs.
Now, if you read the news, just what is breaking in the news now,
what is the latest thing? This summer we had a problem with fish
returns. Now there's going to be a big fight over will the Kenai
Peninsula be declared rural? If it is, then subsistence becomes a
priority and that's going to greatly adversely impact commercial
set-netters, drifters and guides and the building.., business which
in fact depend on those tourists coming in. So we have many
adverse impacts on the horizon.
Now, we need jobs. This is the first project I feel has come along
which meets the goal of long term, stable, good paying jobs. So
that our children do have an option of staying in the area. Now, I
am disappointed that Jim decided, no, he didn't want it. And I'll
KENAI AIRPORT COMMISSION
NOVEMBER 12, 1998
PAGE 11
tell you why, some people say, well appoint a committee to do it.
Appointing a committee to do it, if you don't have someone on
that committee who's actually going to do it, it ain't going to get
done. I have no better example, and I'm afraid I will step on some
toes, is ahh.., couple years ago, we formed a committee within the
City here for economic development. I haven't seen one report out
of that group. I am not talking about the Economic Development
District out here on the North Road, I was saying... I'm talking
about the one that was formed at the Chamber... in the
conjunction with the Chamber and the City. It ain't happened,
there's been nothing come of that.
Realistically, we need to move forward, because a lot of the things
that people say, I don't want this, and I don't want that, I don't
want more economic development. Well, when we don't get
economic development and some of these other things start
ratcheting down, well, we have need for less lawyers. A lot of
people think we have too many of those, but it also means less
need for doctors, so doctors~l tend to move away. And there may
be less customers for Carr's, and for K-Mart. So K-Mart and
Carr's close down and move away. Talk about real adverse impact
on local businesses folks, that's a real adverse impact. You know,
so these situations exist, and we need to move forward with ideas
to make things happen.
Now, I saw that when the contract was out, I knew there would
probably be people who would object about the contract. I
thought well, I know Jim Carter, if it is going to get done, and
done.., a good job done of it, Jim Carter's going to do it. In some
respects the man is a work-aholic, he can be just sitting back on
his butt right now, just retiring, but he's always active in doing...
making things happen in the community. For those of you who
don't remember, the economic development district, which now
exists, exists because Jim Carter organized it. Got it rolling and
jumping. A lot of you weren't here long enough to know that it
occurred, but that occurred. Yes it passed on to other hands
since that time, and I think it's become a bureaucratic mess, but
Jim got it off to a good start. Okay? So I had faith when this
came out and it said Jim Carter is involved in this, I had faith that
it would get done. And he would do the best job he could. Now, I
really hope that if it comes down for a request for proposal, that
he in fact steps up and says, I~l do it. Because I know all too
often what happens, just walk over here to our library, and youfll
see stacks and stacks of studies, done by various sundry groups,
and there they sit moldering in our library, moldering in
everybody's library, and not a thing gets done.
KENAI AIRPORT COMMISSION
NOVEMBER 12, 1998
PAGE 12
For those of you that don't remember, we spent, what was it?
Two-hundred-million dollars on studies for the la... dams up there
in the Mat-Su Valley that never got built, $200 million for studies,
and nothing happened. Other than we spent $200 million for
studies and made a lot of Outside consultants very happy. The
project needs to be done. I am dissa.., and it's a valid.., it's a very
needed project. We need to investigate to see if we can make it
happen, if it's not economically viable? Bingo! Then we move on.
But we need to encourage people to come up with more ideas to
keep this community stable and viable. 'Cause I like being able to
shop at Carr's, I like being able to shop at K-Mart. I don't want to
see 'em close. For some of you that don't remember there was a
rumor that this local Carr's here was having difficulties. It wasn't
as profitable as it could have been. Now if it moves out of town,
what's that going to do to tax revenues for the City? (gesture
indicating increase) If K-Mart closes, what will that do to real
estate taxes? (gesture indicating increase) You know, opportu...
we've got to make our own opportunities. No one is going to come
along with a good opportunity knocking on your door and say, oh
yeah, here it is, we're going to make you all happy, wealthy and
wise. It isn't going to happen, so let's get something going and
make something happen. Thank you.
Chairman Thibodeau: Thank you Mr. Phillips. Umm... I think
what we'd like to do here is kind of put a limit, I'm doing a quick
count, if we continue at 15 minutes or so, we're going to run way
over 8 or 10 hours. If we could kind of limit to maybe 4 minutes,
that would be good? (Positive indication from gallery) Thank you
very much.
Kris Schmidt, 513 Ash Avenue, Kenai, Alaska And I~l definitely
keep my comments brief. I want to say that I've signed the
document that was put in front of you, and I too believe that the
proc.., the problem was with the process. I also want to say that I
think it's really important that before the City considers projects
for economic development that there be public consensus about
the project. And I think that that's the element that's missing in
this project. The public wasn't really given.., there.., wasn't public
consensus. Many people are very much against a project like this
and one of the issues that happens when.., when pursuing a
project like this, is that when you have so much public ahh...
opposition it is very difficult to get a project off the ground. There
are lots of ways to do economic development in a community, if
that's the goal. But it's really important that there be public
consensus, and the people that are here tonight are here to tell
you that there's not public consensus about this project, both the
process by which it was entered into and the project itself.
KENAI AIRPORT COMMISSION
NOVEMBER 12, 1998
PAGE 13
First of all, I want to say that I think the RFP process is the most
fair way to spend our tax dollars. Okay, and regardless of
whether, I... I... I really don't need to hear another lecture about
this not being tax dollars, they're all tax dollars being spent.
Someone paid these in taxes somewhere, this money came from
interest on airport taxes that we all paid when we got on
airplanes. So regardless, of... ahh.., it's tax money regard.., the
City has its City money. Public money should be spent in a
responsible way and that includes a fair way of choosing a
contractor for professional services. This is ahh... I... as Mr.
Schrag said, I am sure there'll be lots of people interested in a
$100,000 contract and there isn't any reason why the contract
couldn't have been changed to reflect a phase in project.
One of the main objections that most of us have is that the
project, as it was written in the original contract, was too all
encompassing, and it also put to us... it put the cart in front of
the horse. You... you weren't looking at whether we really wanted
a project like this to be considered for economic development in
our community, umm.., and then before you went ahead with it in
star.., it looked to us like a lobbying campaign. So, its real
important to us that this contract be limited to see.., to really
what it sounds like you all are saying, and that is it be limited to a
mah.., a user interest survey, meaning users being the air
carriers, not the community. The... you.., word... We thought
users meant the people in the community and that wasn't true,
and also it be important that you take out things like expanding
and relocating the airport if those aren't what you're planning to
do. Because that sure is what the contract says. Or look into
opportunities to expand the airport or relocate the airport, those
look like plans that you want to find out about whether that can
happen. So that's why people are here objecting. That's all I have
to say.
Chairman Thibodeau: Thank you Ms. Schmidt.
Herb Schawn, Kenai, Alaska I would like to begin by ahh...
addressing Mr. Carter, and umm.., and saying that I hope your
integrity again shines through, that you stand by your letter of
this evening, and not just use it as a ploy to call the cards on this
Commission or the City Council or anyone else and that your
letter stands.
I am somewhat surprised too that there's just almost a blanket
disappointment that such a project goes ahead, we've even been
handed phrases like, death by starvation, things like this. Similar
to the phrases we heard at the Council before that what if an
KENAI AIRPORT COMMISSION
NOVEMBER 12, 1998
PAGE 14
airplane crashes out here, how will you feel about that? This is
sort of intimidation by guilt. And I don't think the citizens of this
community need to have an issue muddled ahh.., to that degree
as well.
And I know, that all of us are concerned about how our children
will make an living, and how ahh.., we ourselves will continue to
make a living, and I'd like to say that brains have to be put
together then to ma.. learn.., find ways to make a living and still
keep the place livable. An eagle can foul the nest only so much,
and then it has to just get out. And we have a nice airport, and
the mayor keeps referring as not to the airport but the Jewel of
the Peninsula. And he's right, and let's keep it at that point and
not push it to the point where itel be not even a jewel, it'll be a
sonic disaster. And I don't know that Mr. Carter wishes that upon
anyone either, starting a process rolling that even five miles away
would bring sonic disaster. Ahh... a lot of people live out where
he does and away from the airport, those even within town, do not
welcome the advent of cargo jets. And I interviewed someone from
Ohio who lived ten miles away from a cargo jet place, I will
sometime soon share that information as well.
Maybe you think that this is good, we~l have lots of jobs, ahh...
some sort or another, then we'll slowly as citizens, ahh.., atrophy
here and can't take it anymore and we'll slowly buy 'em out, one
block at a time. Is that your desire? Is that your plan down the
line, so that you can keep the place livable as well as operate your
objective of being an employment agency of the future? These are
kinds of things citizens are concerned about.
And, I also was concerned that this was ahh.., ahh.., a process
that went on by gentleman's agreement. We know this
gentleman, we know that gentleman, let's give it to 'em. After
ahh.. the county evolves to a certain size, you have to get away
from a certain closed system to a open system and I'm... I'm
happy that the information at least got out when it did and it is an
open system.
Mayo~: (standing in gallery) Mr. Chairman?
Chairman Thibodeau: Sir.
Mayor: I strongly object to Mr. Schawn's (garbled) inaccuracies
(garbled) insults (garbled) I strongly object to his referrals to Jim
Carter. I strongly object to Mr. Schawn trying to put the officials
of this City in light of a good ole' boys situation.
(Commotion in gallery)
KENAI AIRPORT COMMISSION
NOVEMBER 12, 1998
PAGE 15
Mr. Schawn: I... sir... I... I... I will just... I will say that I am not
saying it's a good ole' boys system. When a town is small, that's
the proper way to yo... operates.., when cities evolve in size, it has
to go out for public bid, it has to be a more open process because
more people are involved and more variation of opinion is
involved. And these are all good people here who are sitting here
on the Council, and you as well, and I am not saying that anyone
does not have the City good at heart. And I want to emphasize
that really strongly. And I am saying it, the base point is that we
have economic development that balances the well being of the
citizens that live it... along side of it, and not destroys that. And
many towns are working towards that, light industry and not
destructive kinds of things. Certainly none of wants death by
starvation and neither do we want destruction in any other way. I
want to compliment the Council and others for the Health Center
for bringing State offices here to this town, for the big tri...
Training Center that we have here, that are compliments to our
community...
(Indication of expired time by the Chair)
Mr. Schawn: ...without destroy ahh.., our community. Thank you
for your attention.
Chairman Thibodeau: Thank you.
Bob Molloy, Kenai, Alaska My name is Bob Molloy and I am also
a resident of Kenai. I first wanted to thank the Airport
Commission for publishing your agenda in the paper umm.., and
umm.., that was the, you know, first time I was aware it had been
published and I wanted to thank you for doing that. It may have
something to do with why we had the turnout that we've got
today. That's... that's really a really a good positive thing.
My... my... my other principle comment is that delay is not always
a bad thing. Ahh and it's good to have input and ahh.., you know
to hear from the public umm.., what they have to say. I also am
very much in favor umm.., of their being ahh.., a concurrent
study ahh.., done umm.., an RFP could go oUt for this also on
the.., on the impact of a... of an expanded developed airport ahh...
you know on the community. And I ask you to do that if... as well
as ahh.., the ahh.., market survey on the umm.., you know
companies that actually fly the jets we should also have a survey
on the you know citizens that live in the area and what they think
and thank you.
KENAI AIRPORT COMMISSION
NOVEMBER 12, 1998
PAGE 16
Chairman Thibodeau: Thank you, sir.
would like to make a comment here?
Is there anyone else that
Debbie Sonberg, 414 Cinderella, Kenai, Alaska I signed the
alternative ahh.., suggested contract that you have before you as
well. I wasn't totally opposed to Items 5, 6 and 7 that we left out
from the original, but I was very much in favor of havin§ a
concurrent community impact study. I was one of those that was
at Jim Carter's original presentation, and it was a very §ood
presentation. Ahh... I did think when ahh.., it started with this
project started getting named a user interest survey, that that was
a... I thought I was a user of the airport. Later on it became more
obvious that this was a potential industry user survey, that wasn't
my original understanding so that is where some of my confusion
came in.
You know I've had mixed feelings all the way along with certain
parts of the project. But I do think we need a study, I think we
need a concurrent studies, I think this needs to go on. I don't
want to see it stopped. Ahh... impact isn't all positive and I think
what some of use were feeling is that we were seeing the positive
represented, and that's fine, it needs to be there, but we weren't
seeing some of the other concerns represented.
Umm... and also, especially for, oh he stepped out, I was going to
say for the Mayor's benefit, I don't believe that what I said to the
reporter was as negative as what was put in type. He kinda made
it sound like everything the City does is behind, and some things
are and other things aren't. And I spent a lot of time indicating
progresses that I've seen in ahh.., the time period that I have been
more active in coming to Council Meetings and Planning and
Zoning, and this is the first Airport Meeting I've been at. But I've
talked to people who have been at them for quite some time.
I'm trying to be active, I'm trying to understand, sometimes it's
confusing. I too appreciated seeing the agenda in the paper, it's
the first one I've found, it may have been in there before, but I
didn't find it. Ahh... and, I've also seen ahh.., better.., better
explanations starting to be listed in the agendas so that we can
figure out a little bit more about what is going on. Because
sometimes they're vague enough that even though meetings have
been published, they're just published in a few brief words and
that doesn't necessarily inform the public of the impact of what
you're dealing with.
Chairman Thibodeau: Thank you very much. And ahh.., before
we have our next speaker, the Airport Manager would like to
address the assembly here.
KENAI AIRPORT COMMISSION
NOVEMBER 12, 1998
PAGE 17
Airport Manager Steve Atha: Just a technical point which mi§hr
help all of you understand a little bit about the issue that's been
raised. Assume for just a moment, I am not saying it is or isn't
going to happen I am simply saying assume for the moment,
either Mr. Carter does the study or another consultant does the
study, and that that study comes back and suggests a runway
extension be built, a new runway be built, a new airport be built
miles out of town. If all of that is in such a study, you should
understand that there will be no Federal funds spent on that kind
of construction that would handle a heavy jet, handle anything
that's being alluded to here. No Federal funds will §o into that
construction unless a complete Environmental Impact Statement
is done. Ahh... so understand that there will be mandatory, by
law, by Federal regulation, they cannot spend those Federal
dollars unless a complete Environmental Impact Statement is
done on runway expansion or runway construction. And so there
will be plenty of opportunity for public input on air quality, water
quality ahh.., that's all required before Federal dollars can be
spent on that kind of thing. So no matter who does the study or
for what, no construction will be accomplished without complete
public input. And that will be published ahh.., ya... you~l know,
I've just seen it happen too many times in other communities.
Ahh... there will be full public access to that kind of information.
PhiHip North, Kenai, Alaska My name is Phil North and I also
live in Kenai and is it Airport Director, is that your title? Airport
Manager, okay, I guess I~l thank you for that opening. Umm...
the ahh... I have to... I agree with you and it is true that public
when if, if this project were to go forward and Federal money were
to come in, and an EIS was to be done, the public would have
ample opportunity to comment at that time. But, I think that the
comment on environmental impacts or... and the request that you
look at environmental impacts now is totally reasonable. I have a
certain amount of expertise in an eco-process and cause I am...
part of my job is to review NEPA documents and I have yet to see
or hear of a project that was stopped because of environmental
impacts. Umm... there are some examples of projects that did
stop, A.J. Mine is probably the best one in Alaska that it was
stopped because, basically because it couldn't be permitted for
waste water purposes. Umm... even if... it just never happens
that you do the Environmental Review and that., and then the
decision at the end of an Environmental Review is that a project
shouldn't go forward. Even... I mean it just never happens that
you do the Environmental Review and then that .... and then the
decision at the end of the Environmental Review is that a project
shouldn't go forward. So, now is the time for the citizens to know
whether or not the environmental impact is significant and
KENAI AIRPORT COMMISSION
NOVEMBER 12, 1998
PAGE 18
whether or not it will harm the community to the point where they
really don't want this project.
Umm... another point along those lines, the gentleman in the
front talked about $200 million being spent on the Susitna
project. Umm... and it was... I believe it was canceled.., maybe
that is an example of a project that was canceled because of
environmental impact, I am not really sure if it was that or if it
just wasn't feasible. Umm... Maybe they should have done those
key studies early on and not spend $200 million and I guess
that's a point for this project too. I would hate to see the City
spend a lot of money and then find that it either wasn't.., well...
that either it wasn't feasible because of an environmental impact
or because the citizens just didn't want a big cargo airport here.
Umm... so, I think now is the time to look at those.
I~l be real brief for the rest of it. I just wanted to say, you know, I
heard when the Commission spoke at the beginning, they talked
about ahh.., jobs and pro-development, I sensed an inference that
if you're opposed to this project then perhaps your anti-
development. And I never heard anybody who has commented on
this project take a position like that. I think people, I personally
and I've heard other people express that this is just a bad project
for Kenai. This is just not an appropriate project for a small town
like Kenai. Anchorage, Fairbanks fine, but not Kenai. And, so I
guess I want to go on the record as saying regardless of what
studies are done I don't think this is a good project for Kenai and I
oppose it. Thank you.
Chairman Thibodeau: Thank you. Is there anyone else out there
that would like to speak? (Indication from gallery) Okay.
Vesta Leigh, 610 Magic Avenue, Kenai, Alaska Hello, I'm Vesta
Leigh, Umm I've been here before, before you all had name plates.
I would like to see this put out for bid if you're going to do it.
Because the other way, whether it was intended or not, whether it
was old boy, whether it was just.., you knew everybody, it didn't
feel good. And to some people it just plain smelled so, put it out
to bid, go about it right so that you don't.., so that you don't get
people riled up that you don't need to, you are going to have some
riled up anyway no matter what.
But I would like to speak ahh... I had the sad occasion of cutting,
or having cut, at my residence about 10 or 12 trees that have
been there for the 28 years I have been, and I miss 'em. And I
miss 'em because of the noise. Now once that red beetle gets
through here, like it has Homer, and.., and 2/3 of the trees cut in
Woodland and every other place, you think you've got noise, I
KENAI AIRPORT COMMISSION
NOVEMBER 12, 1998
PAGE 19
think I've got noise pollution now? I mean if you don't add
another airplane to that airport it's going to change daily and
nightly life for everybody in this town. So that's basically where I
stand, although if you're going to do the study, I say put it out
do... do it where everybody can look at it and they don't feel antsy
about it.
And one last thing before I leave. Whether it's this Commission or
Planning and Zoning that I've been before, or the City Council, I
don't feel it's appropriate when you're there to take the public's
opinion. You all had a chance to speak before we started. You'll
get another chance to speak. But when the public is, I don't think
it's proper for a member of the Planning and Zoning whose done
it, for a member of this whose done it, and a member of the
Council whose done it and the Mayor in the audience whose done
it to stand up and jabber back at people and poke at them. They
are here to give their opinion and it should be without the little
digs afterwards because you all got your chance to do it and you'll
get a chance again. And that also feels bad to people.
Chairman Thibodeau: Thank you very much, Ms. Lee.
(Applause from gallery)
Dottie Fischer, Kenai, Alaska My name's Dottie Fischer, I live in
Woodland, and I like the noise. I love the airplanes when they
come off of the floatplane landing. I'm Mr. Measles' neighbor. I've
had to cut some trees and its not made my life un... miserable.
Its not hurt the quality of my life. My husband and I came to
Kenai because of aviation. He works for the Federal Aviation
Administration. If it hadn't been for the mayor that put the hub
here, we would not be back in Alaska. We would be in Oregon, or
if we were real lucky, we would be in the frozen Fairbanks. I
think that the aviation industry is good for this community. The
freight industry especially could be good. We've lost Yute Airline,
we have lost South Central as a passenger carrier, we have lost a
lot of jobs. We are short carriers, meaning the number of aircraft
that we need to get the people out of Kenai that want to go on
their vacation, that need to go to the doctor. It's no longer a walk
up to the counter where you're allowed to, hi, I need to go today.
You've got to make a reservation seven, eight days in advance now
because there aren't enough seats on the plane to handle what
we've got now. And I realize the cargo industry is not going to
improve passenger carrier, but it is going to put some of those
people that were out of work, maybe back to work. I heard that it
was 60-some people with South Central. I don't know how many
people we lost with Yute. It seems that aviation in the long run
has been wonderful to this whole community. And its brought a
KENAI AIRPORT COMMISSION
NOVEMBER 12, 1998
PAGE 20
lot of high paying jobs, the money is staying on the Peninsula. Its
not jobs that.., that you take your job here and then you take
your money back to Anchorage. It's staying here. Thank you.
Chairman Thibodeau: Thank you very much Mrs. Fisher, did you
sign in by any chance?
Ms. Fisher: Thank you.
Chairman Thibodeau: I appreciate that.
Mayor John Williams, Kenai, Alaska Nice long list tonight.
Thank you Mr. Chairman and I especially want to thank all of you
who came tonight because it does show, as I've said often before,
we have a need for interest in the community with regard to all
these things. Of course this meeting does show that there is a
great deal of interest out there.
I think... I'd like to start by first apologizing for my outburst but
the one thing I absolutely, as a mayor, deplore is people getting
up in front of the general public or in front of this Council or this
Assembly or this particular Board and taking pot shots at them.
Everybody here is either an elected official or an appointed official
and we think we try to do as good a job as can be expected and I
will not be silenced when it comes to the point of people getting
up and making all kinds of accusations so I do apologize for my
outburst on that.
Now, to move along a little bit. I want to get just a little bit
philosophical about this whole issue of creating jobs and.., and
creating public works projects and creating development. As most
of you are very aware, I've spent the last 12 years doing exactly
what we're talking about doing here tonight. Only in much
smaller projects and in a much smaller fashion. But my entire
career as Mayor of this City has been developing growth in the
City bringing broad economic development and so forth.
Ahh... virtually every project that this Council has brought forth
to this community has been opposed by one group or another.
Some even to the extent of having voted them down completely,
and I give you as an example the Library expansion. There
weren't enough people interested in continuing the growth of the
Library to vote in favor of it. The hockey rink was stopped dead in
its tracks not once, but twice. And we are now in the process of
trying to build a hockey rink with somebody else's cash because
the people of the City of Kenai didn't want to spend any money on
it period. That's it. I could go on down the list. Projects that
failed for one reason or another, the only ones that ever got
KENAI AIRPORT COMMISSION
NOVEMBER 12, 1998
PAGE 21
through were not the ones the people of the City of Kenai chose to
pay for, but rather those that the people of the Council and the
administration went out and got free money so it was finally built.
Those are the only ones that got through. Now, you ask yourself,
how long can you continue to look at trying to do economic
development for both jobs to bring up... bring up what they call
quality of living, quality of life to a job when everybody opposes
every project that comes along. You know, I have to ask myself
that and I don't think anybody can stand here and dispute what I
am saying. Because it's the truth.
Now with regard to the present study, I'm... I'm very, very
disappointed to see that the letter of.. from Mr. Carter came to us
in the manner in which it did. I think that this was a study that
was sorely needed. Maybe it wasn't in the best form it should
have been put in, but like every other major project that we've
done, we have to start some place. This con.., this Council has let
numerous contracts to individuals without calling for RFPs. It is
not a necessary situation, when you are dealing with professional
services, to go out and take bids for a contract. The public health
Nurse Facility is an excellent example. We got all of the
information we needed by letting the contract to a local
consultant who put the package together and it has now resulted
in a $2.7 million project. Again, one that the people of the City of
Kenai are not being asked to pay for. It's being paid for by State
moneys and others. Ahh... when the Challenger Center went
together, again, we went out and hired a private consultant to add
an understanding of what we needed. We did not feel it was
necessary to go to an RFP. Ahh... on occasions I'm not sure, with
Aries Consultants, if we did an RFP with them or if it was just a
continuing situation because they've been our consultant for so
long. But we have let contracts to Aries for $250,000 a piece on
at least two separate occasions. So, the RFPs a process that is
not something that bothers me.
One of the other things that does bother me a bit though is the
method by which you are asking the next RFP be written. Ahh...
and I have no objections to the items on the first page,
Attachment A. Ahh... but on Attachment B you're going into a
litany of questions to be answered that have no business being
answered in this particular part of the contract. There will be no
other issues, no other studies, or no other contracts listed unless
we get the baseline information that may be required for Congress
to determine whether or not they want to spend any more money.
IT was my time line, and the Council's time line, to have this
information in such a manner and form, that in April, when we go
before the Congressional Appropriations Committee, we would
have a basis of something to ask for further study money. Then
KENAI AIRPORT COMMISSION
NOVEMBER 12, 1998
PAGE 22
would come the money for location studies, geo-technical studies,
environmental impact studies, of which there would be a dozen.
Strong environmental impact studies. But at this point in time,
that's not going to happen, we can just forget that issue right now
because there no longer is enough time to put together the
information that I need to go to Washington D.C. and ask for
anything. So as of, the re... the receipt of Mr. Carter's letter, and
after tonight's meeting, I will be contacting our congressional
delegation to advise them that we will not be pursuing the $5
million that I had requested to be put into the Federal Budget.
There just isn't time to do it. I still think it's a worthy project to
look at. I think we need to take a look at this. I am deeply
concerned about the future of where jobs and what our economy
is going to look like, not 5 years from now, not 10 years from now,
20 years down the road. Twenty years isn't very long, I showed
up here 30 years ago looking for a job, so 20 years isn't very long
at all. I will guarantee you that in the very short term of the new
millennium, you will see a major change in the face of jobs and
employment within this area. It is going to happen so quickly
that we may very well be overwhelmed in it. Now, I could ask
each and every one of you, and I've often been tempted to do this,
you don't have to answer, how many of you derive your income
from a government check? How many of you derive your income
from a government check? You either work for the State, you
work for the Feds, you work for the City, you work for the
Borough or you're on Social Security or something of that nature.
All that government money cannot continue to cause an economy
to grow. An economy cannot prosper on government money
alone, its got to have some help from somewhere. And I... I'm not
making these statements lightly because I know what the
financial reports for this City are with regards to revenues and
incomes and sales tax. I know where we're going with those
things. Now I would be remiss in telling you, while things are
very rosy right now, they look better than they have in years,
ahh.., there is every indication that there going to start moving in
the other direction very quickly. From the.., the State level down.
The State Legislature is in more trouble this year, as far as
budgets are concerned, than you can imagine. I remember
standing before the Chamber of Commerce in 1986, the first year
that I was elected Mayor. I said to them then, I would be remiss
in my duty as Mayor if I didn't tell you there were dark clouds on
the horizon. That's exactly what I'm here to tell you today. We
only survive here because we've had a Council and a team that's
worked together to bring the kind of economic development we
have to this community. I'm hoping that this community will
survive, and what we've done and what we'd like to do, will help it
move along and grow. I'm not sure, my term in office is not too
much longer, although it's at least 3 more years, during that next
KENAI AIRPORT COMMISSION
NOVEMBER 12, 1998
PAGE 23
3 year period, I would like to see additional cornerstones of a good
economy develop. Before I leave off, this particular one, if we were
to start tonight and all of sudden have a big turn around and say,
I'm all in favor, is at least 10, maybe 15 years out. It's not
something that is going to happen next week or last week or next
year. Thankyou, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Thibodeau: Thank you, Mayor.
that would like to speak to this issue?
Is there anyone else
Ron Rozak, 36635 Chinulna Drive, Kenai, Alaska My name's
Ron Rozak and, oh, at the Council Meeting a few weeks ago I got
up and spoke. At that time only a couple, I think, of the groups
here were present. And, I spoke in opposition to awarding the
consultant contract at that time because I thought it was out of
synch with maybe where we were going or what we were doing.
Tonight I'd juts like to... My background is Engineering and I
think we had a couple real good, the gentleman here that spoke of
the Environmental Site Assessments. He did a good ahh...
explanation, it is true, that a lot of times.., and my concern is, I'll
say right up front, is that if we are going out for RFPs, first of all
we have to be in agreement on what the scope and purpose of this
process is about. This is a major project. A lot of the others that
have been done and completed are much smaller by comparison.
In a small community they were very big projects. Here, we're
talking about a mega project. May not be the scope of the Susitna
or build a capital in Wasilla or something like that, but ahh...
couple of things come to mind, it is a major project, so I guess my
interest is not in saying we don't do it, or yes let's do it, I don't
have enough information to have a real opinion on it yet. I'm
conservative, I tend to think that a long term project like this, if
there isn't a com.., a fairly.., ahh.., a consensus of opinion here,
that we agree or understand enough about it we agree to proceed
to the next step, and know what that step is, it isn't going to hurt
it to be delayed by a year maybe. If we're not ready to go to
Washington D.C. this year, some of those people~l be there for a
few more years. So, I'm in favor of, I guess looking at the big
picture, narrowing down what needs to be done next. Not just
trashing the idea. There may be places it could be built without
impacting, you know, folks that now have homes in subdivisions
and things like that. But I think it warrants the ahh...
assessment of what is our purpose and.., and more information to
the public. And... and I think there's some emotion here on folks
who invest a lot of time in this. This is your primary duty in this
Commission and I can see where you spend a lot of time reading
these darn reports and thinking about it and trying to do
something, you need to do something, there's a lot of your time
invested. Obviously you're interested or you wouldn't be sitting
KENAI AIRPORT COMMISSION
NOVEMBER 12, 1998
PAGE 24
there. I get real interested in things when I start researching, and
that's what you've done. There are other people out here that
don't have a whole lot of information on it and they get pretty
emotional because they hear noise.., they think there's going to be
noise. And I get emotional about those things too, that's why
sometimes I have to sit and wait my turn. So, from my
perspective, I would, I guess I would like to see a ahh.. this looked
at from an unbiased point of view, and that's hard to do. If you go
out and get an RFP for a specific purpose, that may or may not...
usually the results you get come from what you want. And the
gentleman that spoke here about Environmental Site
Assessments, he's correct. You go out, and by the time you get to
doing Environmental Site Assessments, the politics is moving
forward. And.. anyone who has any opposition to that tends to be
seen as a fringe person or fanatic or something. They may just be
a concerned person, but now they're no longer on track and so
there's opposition. I would like to see it developed so we don't
have animosity and misunderstanding and what not. Christine,
you did a very good summary of what I felt. I can't improve on
that so I~l stop now.
Chairman Thibodeau: Thank you very much Mr. Rozak. Is there
anyone else who would like to comment on this? {Indication from
the gallery) Okay.
Red McCallum, Kenai, Alaska My name is Red McCallum and
I've lived here longer than most of you. And I agree with what Mr.
Rozak said. That's it.
Chairman Thibodeau' Thank you very much.
(Laughter and applause from gallery)
Carol Dallman, 524 Pine Avenue, Kenai, Alaska My name is
Carol Dallman and I live in Kenai. I had no intention of speaking
tonight, but I guess I'm just really impressed by what I have seen
happening in the last couple of months, and that is the
democratic process in action. Umm... at the beginning of the
meeting tonight, Mr. Thibodeau, you said something went wrong,
but I would have to disagree, I would think something went very
right, and that is that over the last several months, people have
become informed, they've become involved in their community, as
they should have. And I think that's really impressive and for the
first time in a long time, I have become involved because this is an
issue that strikes very near and dear to my heart. And... umm... I
just really would like to say I agree with a lot of the members of
the community that said, umm.., let's slow down, let's take it one
step at a time, let's do it right. Because we all have a great deal at
KENAI AIRPORT COMMISSION
NOVEMBER 12, 1998
PAGE 25
stake here. So I really appreciate the fact that umm.., a lot of
people have gone through the trouble to really study the contract,
make some proposed changes. I would sign that if it were still
available for open signing because I totally agree with it and I
appreciate all the efforts that people have put into this process.
Thank you.
Chairman Thibodeau: Thank you. Is there anyone else who
would like to speak? {Indication from the gallery) Mr. Carter.
James Carter, Sr., Kenai, Alaska Thank you Mr. Chairman and
members of the Commission and ladies and gentlemen. Umm...
first of all, I do want to say the letter that ! wrote ahh.., citing my
non-interest in this project is accurate. It can be backed with
memorandums and every Item that's needed. I wouldn't put my
integrity on the line just to write a letter. And so, I feel that I want
you, first of all, to know that.
Secondly, I want you to know that that letter was not influenced
by the article I think was in the paper on Wednesday because I
actually wrote the letter on the l0th. And so, that had nothing to
do with ahh.., that publication. But I want to say to you, also is,
I'm not an official but I absolutely, 100% respect the fact that you
folks come and show an interest and make your presentation.
That is the democratic ahh.., process. Ahh now I don't have to
agree with everything you say, but ahh.., never the less, I respect
that process.
One thing I want to say is, that when I look at the picture of that
man on the wall, that was Bill Brighton. One of a kind type of
guy. I want to tell you that when this subject came up, and the
Council gave its okay to proceed, that man would have been on
the airplane to Anchorage the next day knocking at the FAA,
knocking at the airport division. And he'd a came back with the
approval of that money. And we would have been 5 months into
this project by now. And you know what you would be getting?
You would be getting as a part of that contract where it says that
every 90 days, the consultant will report what has happened,
what's being done, so on and so forth. And it would be reported
to the Airport Commission and the City Council. You would have
been a part of that, you could have found out what was going on.
What was happening, when it was happening and all of that. You
could have been a part of that. You'd be getting information. And
if you wanted to influence 'em, you didn't like what you were
getting, you'd have an opportunity to... to ahh do most anything.
But of course, that's not where we are.
KENAI AIRPORT COMMISSION
NOVEMBER 12, 1998
PAGE 26
Couple of other things that I'd like to mention tonight. I called the
food bank today, now this is... someone's saying God you're going
to extremes here, cause I wanted to know, what percentage of this
Peninsula Borough is required to go to the food bank. It's flat
amazing, flat amazing, 10% of the people of this borough use the
food bank. That means that there is a tremendous amount of
people unemployed. Now we can make fun of that if we want to,
but there is a tremendous amount of people unemployed. And
putting my EDD hat back on, we did all kind of surveys to stay
current on unemployment. And the unemployment goes from
anywhere from 12% to 19% for this borough. That's shameful.
That is total, total shameful. That while I said I respect what you
have to do, what you have to say, probably all of you in this room
are.., don't have a problem making a living. But there's people
out there that can be put to work. They're looking for jobs.
They're begging for jobs. And this is a project, even though it's far
down the road, far down the road, but this is a project that we can
put people to work. I say it's shameful again that we have such
unemployment.
Now, this contract was amended one more time to cope with your
input that you made at the City Council. How would the contract
be coped with if at the next Council Meeting 25 people that are
unemployed come in and start hammering here at the Council
saying, you know, when are you going to start taking care of me?
Why are you not doing this project? What's... why the delay?
What's happening? And so how do we incorporate that into the
contract?
And then there are businesses out here that are really waiting for
something to happen in this community. Really waiting for
something to happen in this community. I can tell you that,
again, from the EDD days. And they're pro-development and so
they come in here at the 18th meeting of the Council and they
say, what are you going to do for us? How about pro-
development? We need it. How do you amend the contract for
that? And so we have a problem, and umm.., and I'm not sure
that we are going to be able to handle all the problems.
Ahh... I still say it's a good, viable project and I truly hope that the
Council will find some way to carry it forward. But because of all
the delays, six months now, I just feel that I couldn't afford to put
my integrity on the line. I have been around here for 52 years and
aviation practically all of that time in one way or the other. I
belong to a world class pilot organization that's been around since
1918 and ahh... I just think that we need to continue some way or
another. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
KENAI AIRPORT COMMISSION
NOVEMBER 12, 1998
PAGE 27
Chairman Thibodeau: Thank you, Mr. Carter. Last couple
speakers, you probably noticed, have §one on a little bit lon§er. It
seemed pretty obvious that everybody here wasn't §oin§ to speak.
So if any of those that were, you know, cut a little short want to
§et up and add to what they said, feel free to do it. Okay.
Ms. Lambourn: My name's Rebecca Lambourn and ahh.. I just
like to say a lot of what I am hearing here tonight is ahh... {Tape
change) this airport project is a bad idea as being anti-
development and that is not true. We like economic opportunity,
there's been a lot of really good projects that have come to Kenai
because of our Mayor, because of good planning, because of the
City Council so umm... I'd like to make that very clear. And I
think a lot of them have been fairly low impact projects in that
they haven't made Kenai an undesirable place to live. Umm... I
think we could put our heads together as a community and come
up with good ways to help develop this area that is sustainable for
the long term and doesn't make us all want to move out
somewhere else.
Ahh... and example, I have ahh I know of a family who started a
small business here within the last couple years. They have a
small office, they have contacts all over the world, they are a
recruitment agency, they ahh.., deal with people in Shanghai to
umm.., to Europe and it supports four different families out of the
one small, little office in Kenai. The world is changing, we don't
have to have heavy industry to have good jobs. And a lot of the
people who are at the food bank are people who are needing skills
to be employed. So, umm... I would just like to go on record as
saying I am not anti-development, umm... I would very much like
to be a part of the process of planning in this community and be a
part of umm.., looking for ways we can provide jobs for our
children so that they can stay here. Thank you.
Chairman Thibodeau: Thank you.
(Indication from the gallery) Okay.
Is there anyone else?
Joanne Buzzell, Kenai, Alaska My name is Joanne Buzzell and I
only want to say that I think a lot of this could have been avoided.
Ahh... the.., the problem has been a lack of communication from
the City officials and administration so forth, to the City of Kenai,
the people of Kenai. They haven't known what is going on. And I
think that things have improved in that way in the past few
months and I just want to commend the administration and
everyone who is responsible for it. But I really think that that's
umm.., and a lot of people feel that's a main part of the problem
that people have not been informed of what was going on.
KENAI AIRPORT COMMISSION
NOVEMBER 12, 1998
PAGE 28
Chairman Thibodeau: Thank you.
Ms. Leigh: I've got one question about the record please.
Chairman Thibodeau: Okay.
Ms. Leigh: Umm... is there a way that we can get, if we bring you
a, ahh.., clear tape, do you do the typing ma'am?
Rapp: Yes I do do the typing and if you contact the City Clerk, for
a fee, you can get up to three tapes, copies of tapes.
Ms. Leigh: That is what I am trying to avoid, plus the $25.00 fee.
Frankly you know...
Rapp: I'm... I'm not in charge of that, umm.., you could address
that. to the City Clerk.
Ms. Leigh: Thank you.
Chairman Thibodeau: Is there anyone else that would like to
speak?
Mr. Carter: I just wanted, right from here, to add a comment.
That these ladies over here I really admire 'em. They were at the
first meeting when we, when I made the presentation and all I can
say is, if they were at the first meeting when we made the
presentation that the word was out and not...
(Discussion in gallery)
Chairman Thibodeau: Is there anyone else that would like to
speak on that? Actually I would like to make a comment on that.
Umm... and that is that the City has a number of Boards and
Commissions and they're pretty much made up of people that
volunteer for those things. We all volunteer, we all thought that
the airport, in this case, the airport was something that we ahh...
had an interest in. And we are just people from the community
like yourself. This is not a job or anything and we represent you
in that, when somebody brings an idea before a Commissioner or
Board, they're bringing it before the people and you are all
welcome and that's what I really appreciate about.., that.., that
you did come tonight and you are voicing your opinions.
But the fact that nobody is here, for some of the meetings, doesn't
mean that it hasn't been brought before the people because when
it comes before a Commission, we are the people. And we try to...
we go out and talk with people in our various fields and so forth,
KENAI AIRPORT COMMISSION
NOVEMBER 12, 1998
PAGE 29
ahh.., and at our jobs about what is going on and I've talked to a
number of people about this project. And there are.., is a lot of
interest in it. And a lot of those people that are positively
interested in it ahh.., are people that, again, are looking for the
jobs and they're not, in a lot of cases, the people that are going to
come here. But, we do listen to them too. And I go out and talk
with people in all areas. Ahh and if I think it will affect them just
bring it up, that's what we do.
There are openings in these Commissions, too. And umm.., more
than just coming when you do hear about something that sounds
of particular interest to you, you might look into becoming part of
one of the Commissions or Boards. Ahh... you know, you are
certainly welcome to do that. Ahh... and so, when you say that
there's been more communication, I think the communication has
been there, but when the newspaper gets it there's particular
interests, particular subjects that bring out people to comment on
them. But there's a lot of other things you're missing by not
coming more frequently. We definitely encourage it and we really
appreciate the fact that you have come and are voicing your
opinions now. Ahh... on the airport expansion one, we're still a
small area here, a small town that's growing and when this idea
came up, it was an evolutionary process. And that's where a lot of
misunderstanding came in, what we were going to do. Possibly,
originally it was some kind of expansion of the airport. And then
somebody used the word jumbo, pretty soon we had jumbo jets
landing at the airport. I don't think that really was the intent.
(Comments from gallery)
Chairman Thibodeau: There was.., it was brought up and
discussed, but I think it went beyond that pretty quickly. We
don't know where it would have gone. But that was the idea, to
find out what really would be out there. And it was just a fact-
finding thing, to find out what the potential was. That was what
we were looking for.
And when I said, jumping back a second here, when I said that
ahh... I thought there was a failure in the process, it didn't have
to do with the people, because I consider when it came before us
that.., that it had been out to the people and that when we didn't
hear any negative response, we had a positive response here and
the City Council had a positive response, that we should have
gone forward at that time with what we had. We liked it. And
then, then we've gotten more comment and it's changed and it's
changed and it's changed to a point where we don't have it. And I
think we've lost out on a valuable resource. The RFP thing can
bring in a lot of possibles, and that is probably the way we~l go.
KENAI AIRPORT COMMISSION
NOVEMBER 12, 1998
PAGE 30
But I think we've lost a real.., this particular project would go best
I think if you have a positive attitude going into ahh.. and the
knowledge and the background to find the information that you
are looking for.
Mr. Schrag: I was here for that original presentation of Mr.
Carter's and it was based on the fact that Anchorage is running
out of space to do their cargo. I was here and I heard it was based
on that. That's where we got that, I mean that was the main
argument.
Chairman Thibodeau: There was a lot of things, I think, being
thrown around.
Mr. Schrag: But that was.., most of the argument.., presentation
seemed to be based on the fact.., the need for cargo jets to refuel
someplace and we need to get in on the business. Which is okay,
I'm not complaining about that, that's what I heard. To minimize
it now...
Chairman Thibodeau: I'm not minimizing. What I am saying is,
there were a lot of ideas that were being thrown out at that time.
Mr. Schrag: It was one of the basics.
Chairman Thibodeau: If we're going to have additional comments
we're really going to have to come up to the...
Mr. M¢Callum: They said this old airport wouldn't stand up. That
plane~l come in here 400,000 lbs. or something, and just roll this
airport up. And they couldn't take this airport out of service
because we just have to have it. So we'd have to go buy and build
a new airport, and have to start from the bottom up because this
one didn't have enough bottom end. And I'm a contractor and I
agree with them. But I think those were some of the arguments
they were feeding us. That's why we're here tonight. Thank you.
Chairman Thibodeau: Thank you. And I like the fact you just got
up and said that. It also happened here a couple of other nights...
instances tonight.., and I want to tell you, you don't agree with
something, we're all Alaskans, at some point, somebody is going
to get up and say something and we get emotional or whatever.
We do appreciate that. And everybody that's made a comment
tonight, some of them weren't as friendly, but it... it's needed
sometimes, I'm not going to stop that if it's a little bit of it. Does
anybody else have any other comments?
KENAI AIRPORT COMMISSION
NOVEMBER 12, 1998
PAGE 31
Holloway: To the young lady who was worried about the noise of
the C-130's going over your head. Maybe this will help you sleep
a little better at night, when you hear it say thank you. Our
Alaska National Guard, Air Guard, won the International
competition for accuracy in the Lower 48. These are the same
young men and young women who are going over to the Gulf and
a few other places and protecting our lives. Every time you hear
that C-130 go over, don't complain, just say thank you, I'm glad
you're here.
If you are not an instrument rated pilot, you have no idea what it
takes to stay current. You say sometimes they come right over
your house, sometimes they don't, I lived on 2nd Street. They
came right over my back yard. And I look up whenever I say...
Hey you guys are practicing early today, or, you're in tight. Some
of these airports they have to go in and out of, you wouldn't want
to ever fly in there. But they're required to do it as their duty.
They're down here practicing those type of landings to save our
lives. So every time it goes up would you say thank you and enjoy
it?
Ms. Lambourn: I'm not sure that you properly understood my
comment, umm...
Chairman Thibodeau: Your name please?
Ms. I,ambourn: Ahh... Rebecca Lambourn, you've asked me three
times now, I am sorry I keep forgetting. Yeah, I don't have a
problem with training C-130 pilots. It's necessary and I
absolutely agree. However, umm.., my comment here tonight is
that we have requested they not do repetitive low circling right
over the tops of our houses and if they're as dangerous
maneuvers as you are describing them, I don't want it done right
over my house. It could be done differently. I have spoken with
the Airport Manager about that and he requested that they do it
differently, and his words to me were, they were very patronizing
about it. Now I think we could get more cooperation out of these
organizations than we are getting. And that's what I am asking
for. Umm... I think the City of Kenai and residents should
understand that our community, the airspace over our
community is being used for training for some very dangerous
maneuvers. And if our community is ready to accept that, well
then you're right, it's my problem. Umm.. I'm not sure that I'm
saying thank you to them every time they do that over my house.
Chairman Thibodeau: Thank you. Is there any more comments?
Verbatim Ends
KENAI AIRPORT COMMISSION
NOVEMBER 12, 1998
PAGE 32
®
NEW BUSINESS
Discussion -- Payless Car Rental Request/ Counter Space in
Airport Terminal
Airport Manager Atha reported Payless Car Rental had applied for
booth space at the airport. He noted they are currently operating
off airport. Atha reported the only available space was the end
booth, which is 60 square feet. He commented the code requires
100 square feet.
Chairman Thibodeau asked for questions or comments. Favretto
commented he owned and operated a car rental agency out of his
other business, Kenai Chrysler. Favretto stated, although he has
considered the possibility, he does not operate out of the airport
and considers himself open-minded. Favretto further commented
he felt there would be no conflict of interest. Chairman
Thibodeau thanked Favretto for his comments.
Knackstedt inquired how many booths were at the airport, why
there was a 100 square foot requirement and when the contract
would be up for the current lease holders. Atha replied the code
could be a result of the original drawings and suggested
recommending a temporary variance. Atha reported there were
three rental agencies currently operating in the terminal and their
leases would all be up in June 1999. Favretto commented his
business operates in a space of 30 square feet. He noted the car
rental business is very seasonal and commented if someone was
willing to set up a business in the winter months they should
have every opportunity available to them.
Chairman Thibodeau commented the airport has had as many as
five or six rental agencies at one time. He noted too many
agencies creates an atmosphere of price wars. Chairman
Thibodeau further noted the three current rental agencies are laid
out attractively.
Atha reported two of the rental agencies occupy two spaces each
and the third rental agency occupies a single space between
them. He noted the condition of the lease allowed the City to re-
allocate the double spaces.
HOLLOWAY MOVED TO RECOMMEND THE CITY COUNCIL
DENY THE REQUEST BASED ON LACK OF CITY CODE
DETERMINED SPACE IN THE TERMINAL BUILDING.
KENAI AIRPORT COMMISSION
NOVEMBER 12, 1998
PAGE 33
®
Jerry Vitali, Fleet Manager, Payless Car Rental Mr. Vitali noted
Payless is actually a part of Alaska Dial-A-Car. He commented
they were not affiliated with the Payless agency that had
previously occupied space at the airport and had gone out of
business. Mr. Vitali noted that business' failure was not a result
of the Kenai location rather unfavorable business climate in other
locations of the state.
Mr. Vitali commented his organization would be very
accommodating regarding counter space. He reported his
company had been researching leasing space in the Kenai
terminal for the past two years. Mr. Vitali noted his company felt
it was a sound financial venture. He further noted this agency
would add four or five new jobs to the community.
Monty Kruger, Owner, Budget Car Rental Ms. Kruger
commented she did not have a problem with Payless opening an
agency in the terminal. Ms. Kruger expressed concerns regarding
which rental agency would have to forfeit their extra space. She
reported they had put a lot of money into expanding the counter
space.
Assistant Airport Manager Keith Holland reported there were five
individual leases standing. He noted the end booth had 52
square feet of space and has been used in the past by a tour bus
and a booking agency. Holland commented it is usable space.
HEARING NO SECOND TO THE MOTION, CHAIRMAN
THIBODEAU DISMISSED THE MOTION.
AIRPORT MANAGER'S REPORT
10/98 Kenai Municipal Airport Enplanements
Airport Manager Atha commented, without competition, there
wasn't much to discuss about the enplanement report. Atha
noted airport traffic was down to less than 25 flights per day. He
commented the airport needs another carrier. Atha reported Era
Aviation would be holding a question and answer session on
November 18, 1998 from 6:00 p.m. to 9:00 p.m. Atha commented
he had heard a few disgruntled comments from passengers
regarding Era's service.
An audience member inquired if Airline Support, Inc. was still
planning to.open a carrier service in Kenai. Atha reported the
company is in the process of attempting to obtain aircraft. He
noted the airport had not heard from Airline Support, Inc.
regarding whether they would be opening in Kenai.
KENAI AIRPORT COMMISSION
NOVEMBER 12, 1998
PAGE 34
®
COMMISSIONERS' COMMENTS/QUESTIONS
Commissioner Favretto encouraged Mr. Vitali to approach the City
Council regarding opening a booth in the terminal. Favretto suggested
Mr. Vitali have a plan ready to present to the Council and noted
aesthetics were a big concern.
®
PERSONS NOT SCHEDULED TO BE HEARD - none
10. INFORMATION ITEMS
Kenai City Council Meeting Action Agenda - October 7, 21 and
November 4, 1998.
11. ADJOURNMENT
HOLLOWAY MOVED TO ADJOURN. KNACKSTEDT SECONDED THE
MOTION. MEETING ADJOURNED AT 9:45 P.M.
Respectfully submitted,
Alison Rapp
Contract Secretary
KENAI AIRPORT COMMISSION
NOVEMBER 12, 1998
PAGE 35