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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1987-03-24 Beautification SummaryBEAUTIFICATION COMMITTEE Memorial Park Committee March 24, 1987 - 1:30 PM Kenai City Hall Tim Wisniewski, Chairman AGENDA 1. ROLL CALL 2. APPROVAL OF AGENDA 3. PERSONS PRESENT SCHEDULED TO BE HEARD a. Hubert Nelson- Representative of State Institutional Occupations Program 4. APPROVAL OF MINUTES of March 10, 1987 5. OLD BUSINESS a. Selection of Design for Veteran's Memorial 6. NEW BUSINESS a. Suzanne Little - Banners 7. PARKS & RECREATION REPORT No minutes available at packet time '8. COMMITTEE COMMENTS & QUESTIONS 9. ADJOURNMENT Mr. Ron Malston has agreed to come to this meeting to hear the Committee's ideas concerning plaques. Mr. Malston feels that he may be able to provide the plaques that the Committee is looking for. KENAI BEAUTIFICATION/MEMORIAL PARK COMMITTEE Minutes, Regular Meeting Held, Kenai City Hall, Council Chambers Tuesday, March 24, 1987, 1:30 p.m., AST Presiding: Glen Jackson, Vice Chairman Note: Committee Member Glen Jackson was nominated as Vice Chairman by Committee Member Hakkinen in the absence of Chai~rman Wisniewski. Passed by general consent. Present Absent , , ,, Lil Hakkinen Glen Jackson N ina Selby Roseanna Shelden Harry Lewis Sally Bailie Dr. Hansen Karolee Hansen Tim Wisniewski (excused) Chris Monfor (unexcused) Pat .Porter (unexcused) In Attendance: Kayo McGillivray, Director, Parks & Recreation Janet Loper, Planning Specialist Mark Winston, Veteran's Memorial Committee Jim Scroggins, Veteran's Memorial Committee ROLL , Eight (8) present and three (3) absent. · APPROVAL OF AGENDA , , Specialist Loper indicated that Ron Malston said that he might attend and Hubert Nelson would like to get an overview of the plan instead of being a speaker. Mr. Nelson indicated he would go ahead. · PERSONS PRESENT SCHEDULED TO BE HEARD a. Hubert Nelson - Representative Institutional Occupations Program. of the State Mr. Nelson: Just briefly. I'm with Correctional Industries out at the prison. And what we do is metal products and it was suggested that there might be some opportunity for us to do some medal plaque work for this project. It's a little bit out of our scope I think, but, I thought I'd come over KENAI BEAUTIFICATION MEMORIAL PARK COMMITTEE March 24, 1987 page -2- and see what's happening with this thing and maybe I could contribute in some way. If there were a lot of .... and it appears to me that this plaque is going to be kind of specialized in something that we might not want to get into now. At the time I thought it might be something we could do in our metal fabrication shop at the prison. We might be available to, to do some of the metal fabrication for some of the other projects there, like on the gazebos that if you have any metals products in that. I can't speak for the prison itself, but they do have .... sometimes they have inmates that can go projects like this to maybe help with the labor part. I can't speak for them though. On the side box or other construction issue, that would have to go through the superintendent. I can talk to him if the committee would like me to. I don't want to over step my bounds here. They did do some other work for the City of Kenai. I just wanted to come to the meeting to see if I can contribute· anything to it. Vice Chairman Jackson: Thank you Hubert. I tell you, Janet and Tim and I, after the meeting, the last two weeks ago, we got to talking and we were talking about these plaques, memorials and we got to thrashing it around and the first thing we knew, we thought we had something that might work fairly well, by taking the small slabs, polished granite or marble, they come in thin pieces. And if, like Hubert says, he does do some metal work, if the letters .... and what I'm thinking about is the letters can be cut out of thin metal, to what ever was to go on a slab, then put that piece of metal down on the slab and then take a sand blaster and the metal, of course, it'll blast on the metal, but the idea is to blast the marble and using the metal as a template on top of it and just blast it down so it's very well etched into the marble or granite, what ever it will be. And it could just be taken out and placed in a wet cement. Ms. Loper: What we're after here is to try and buy locally, so we don't have to send away and it takes forever in a day to get. We have a fellow here in town who does have marble available, but I haven't been able to get a hold of him. Do you remember Georgio's. Councilwoman Bailie: Probably you should try maybe out at this restaurant. KENAI BEAUTIFICATION MEMORIAL PARK COMMITTEE March 24, 1987 page -3- Ms. Loper: I tried. They said he was out of town for a while but they couldn't tell me how long, so we still have that option to try and work something out. Councilwoman Bailie: Does he still carry marble? Ms. Loper: Yes. A Committee Member: He had an add in the paper not to long ago for sale of it. Mr. Nelson: The way I've seen that particular operation done is, they use for metal, they use a plastic. It's kind of like rubber for the shatter. The sand bounces off and it doesn't erode the rubber and plastic. Plastic is a lot easier to work with than metal for making templates. Vice Chairman Jackson: Would that be possible then? Do you think that maybe your group might be interested? Mr. Nelson: Well, I don't know. Maybe. But I have to see. We don't have a sand blaster. It's not something that we would normally do. In Palmer we do have a sign making operation up there. They might be interested. They might, the correction center in Palmer. It's probably not something that we would want to do, but we might be able to do it. Is there a design already made for this? Vice Chairman Jackson: No. There hasn't been a design. This was just something thrown out as we were talking about it last meeting. Hubert, would you be so kind as to try to investigate as to whether Palmer might want to do something like that? Mr. Nelson: Yes. There's also .... there is a little machine that I am familiar with vaguely that, it's kind of a (inaudible), but it's a little machine that's specifically designed to cut out that type of material for that kind of operation. I saw one demonstrated a few years ago. I might take a look at that too. It's not a very expensive machine. It's one that it's design purpose is to make stencils for sand blasting metal, but I might look into that too. Vice Chairman Jackson: If you would please, we'd appreciate KENAI BEAUTIFICATION MEMORIAL PARK COMMITTEE March 24, 1987 page -4- it. If you could bring back for the future here. this isn't an over night thing that has to anything like that, but we should look into it. Of course be done or Councilwoman Bailie: Something that comes to mind. The city had, make signs also. Do they have the capabilities of doing anything like this Janet? Ms. Loper: They only do things like And there all pretty large lettering, how large a street sign is to make. street signs though. when you th ink about Councilwoman Bailie: That's true, I realize what those are, but I'm wondering if in fact, granted they do just, right now they're just doing that, I'm wondering if there is any way in which .... Ms. Loper: I don't know. Director McGillivray: They don't have don't think to make that type of signs. the equipment, I Ms. Loper: When the Borough, Kenai made that ordinance, taking over the street naming powers, they were going to charge anyone outside of the municipalities, $150.00 per sign, to put up a street sign. I don't know how much it costs us, but if that's the case, that's terrible. Committee Member that on a post? Lewis: That was completely erected, was Ms. Loper: No, the post was separate. Vice Chairman Jackson: Well, I think something like this, like Hubert has described here. The thing that I think is, that we should think in terms of a plaque that would be, that would stand out and granite or marble will, and something that won't erode away or ...... Ms. Loper: Or can't be lifted out too easily. Vice Chairman Jackson: ever leave. Can really set in there so it won't KENAI BEAUTIFICATION MEMORIAL PARK COMMITTEE March 24, 1987 page -5- Mr. Nelson: Has anybody explored the prices of cast bronze? Ms. Loper: We haven't had any sources so far, I talked with Ron Malston and he was going to get some material together and be here for the meeting today to see if he could come up with something. I haven't heard anything. Councilwoman Bailie: I have nothing on him at all. I do know that he is getting ready to go out on a buying trip and I don't know if he's left yet or when he's due to leave. Ms. Loper: He might be, the last time I talked to him he didn't know when he was going either, so he may have left a little sooner than he .... but, that was the other options, is that he might have something he can come up with, but then it takes, I think he said up to three weeks from the time it's ordered to be done through him. So, there are a couple of options. Of course, what we do, if we are able to put the State to work, is not only help support our own economy right here, but, State wide as well, and through Ron, is also buying, at least somewhat locally through Ron. Councilwoman Bailie: You know Fred Braun is the other part of that, so it isn't just Ron, so we could still check with Fred. Cause it's the two of them together. Ms. Loper: Alright. Vice Chairman Jackson: Well, Hubert, if you could report back to us in two or four weeks we would appreciate it. Mr. Nelson: Okay, do you have regularly scheduled meetings? Vice Chairman Jackson: Every second and fourth Tuesday. 4. APPROVAL OF MINUTES - March 10, 1987 Minutes approved as presented. 5. OLD BUSINESS > -- a. Selection of design for Veteran's Memorial - Mark Winston. Nina, I heard you say that you'd read this head KENAI BEAUTIFICATION MEMORIAL PARK COMMITTEE March 24, 1987 page -6- line, and say we haven't pick apologize, if you read that somewhere she says, .... a memorial yet, I'd like to article though, I think Vice Chairman Jackson: approval of the .... At the very end, it says upon Committee Member Selby: subject to approval. At the very end of it, it says Mr. Winston: We ran a contest and we have forty different designs and the memorial committee picked this one done by a senior in Soldotna as our number one choice for the Memorial. (Mr. Winston held the design for all committee members to see and review). I have all the plans that we received here and if you guys would like to look at them, we hope that you'll come to the same conclusion, that this is what we would like to see in the Memorial Park. Committee Member Selby: How tall is that. Mr. Winston: It's ten foot. On a plan that I'll show you here, where we've got an architect's drawing to do it, he showed it as thirty feet high .... (general laughter) Committee Member Selby: that's going to over Personally, I would .... My word .... we don't want something whelm the Memorial Park at all. Mr. Winston: Let's see, what else do I need here... to talk about Committee Member Selby: up? How big of an area is that, take Mr. Winston: This design, if you approved this design, and I've got a small one here, this one is easier to pass around. That was the kid's design that came to us originally. It's fifteen by thirty feet in an oval and as far as where in the park, the committee would like to recommend as site between the fountain and the gazebo. As a possible second site, to the north side of the fountain, was KENAI BEAUTIFICATION MEMORIAL PARK COMMITTEE March 24, 1987 page -7- another site that we had talked about putting it in. Ms. Loper: Maybe I should explain why the group is choosing what they are choosing. The plat that this group has been looking at shows, you see the kind of sol id shaded line right here, (Ms. Loper is explaining by pointing to the plat hanging on the wall to demonstrate), that's the platted property that we have to stay within, and it comes to about here. This is actually the ground itself. What this strip is from here to here and out to the corner is State right of way. If they were to put this where they originally out here, they'd be in the State right of way and would need a permit, which would be about three months or so. What they're suggesting is a design in here, which is within the platted property, or here, and one of the two reasons is because of where the electrical lines are running. We have electrical lines which go to the fountain here and which cross over here under the gazebo and if it goes in here, their memorial will be able to tie into this electrical line right here and if you put it in here, they would have to run a line from about here to here. That's once we get this piece here, is the overhead lines, once we get it buried, and start running under ground lines, then it will be easier for them to tie into, that's why they've chosen where they've chosen. Dr. Hansen: Janet could you talk a little louder please. Mr. Winston: The site selection is getting a head of where we are right now. What I'd like to do is ask for the committee's approval of the design and if we don't agree that's the one that you guys would like to see in the park, then we have to go back to the drawing board and come up with one that...that we can. Committee Member Shelden: So you not going to show us the other designs? Mr. Winston: Oh no, they' re all right here. Vice Chairman Jackson: I have to correct you as the height of it, it's nine foot, which is exactly, now according to this, is what this room is. KENAI BEAUTIFICATION MEMORIAL PARK COMMITTEE March 24, 1987 page -8- Mr. Winston: That's corrected to ten feet. Vice Chairman Jackson: And .... it's corrected to ten feet, alright, at the top of it, it's a sixteen inch square, so it tapers, at the bottom, it's thirty inches. It's not all that overwhelmingly large. And it is, as he stated, it's to be granite. Mr. Winston: That's changed. Vice Chairman Jackson: That's changed too? Mr. Winston: Yes. The plans that we would use to build it are these here and at talking to the artist, he had, he wants everything, I believe on the back of that, Sally on the back of that there's a little letter, would you please read that. Councilwoman Bailie: "Part of the concept involved in the structure, is that of performance. The entire monument should be built by hand, if possible, and preferably by the veterans involved in the organization. Also, all the materials should be from the Kenai Peninsula, again, if possible. The tree in the northern end of the oval should be planted as a small tree and eventually grow to dwarf the obelisk in the southern end. The tree helps to explain the growth of human life, past the defined memory of war or any other part of life." And it says check with Janice, plate for memorial park and gazebo, fountain ..... these are just notes. Committee Member Lewis: Is there a flame on the top of this here? Mr. Winston: No. We have a seventeen year old artist here and when he came to .... a group of veterans came to talk to him .... that's the same thing that came up. Can we put a plaque here, can we have a perpetual flame, can we light our flag poles? He has a real idea of what he wants this memorial to be and, and Jim, maybe you could talk about that a little bit. Mr. Scroggins: The wall is rock facing, slab facing. There's plenty of rock at Cooper Landing, he says that'll KENAI BEAUTIFICATION MEMORIAL PARK COMMITTEE March 24, 1987 page -9- fit our needs. The monument will be faced with it also. We're talking about, Committee Member: What kind? Mr. Scroggins: Rock shale facing. On top of obelisk itself, they want, they're talking about putting a light in to light the flags on the flag pole, so that will .... your eternal flame I guess, put on for that. But, we asked about putting a plaque in the corner for his recognition, and he says, if I have to okay, and other than that, that's the only plaques that will be on it. No statements except the thing itself. Councilwoman Bailie: Nothing to explain what it's there for? Mr. Scroggins: Nothing to explain. He has it in the oval shape for solitude. So it's all self contained. Ms. Loper: It's kind of a shame that it wouldn't be explained, he's got some really solid thoughts there. Mr. Winston: I kind of thought that too, he was adamant about not wanting, not wanting that to happen where the veteran ' s ..... Mr. Scroggins: I took this plan back to him a week ago, and I think he almost had a coronary ..... thirty foot tall, he goes, no. Forget that. I had a lot of people, veterans, that were not on the committee that were saying, well, talk to him about it, kind of pressure him, sell him on the idea, and he wasn't buying, so .... ten foot, he said, that's it. Committee Member Selby: Thirty feet would just over shadow the whole park, and to me, would do away with what ..... Mr. Scroggins: But he's idea is to keep it contained within the oval and thirty foot will over flow so bad that he said no way. Committee Member Selby: How tall is that gazebo? Mr. Winston: Fifteen feet. KENAI BEAUTIFICATION MEMORIAL PARK COMMITTEE March 24, 1987 page -10- Committee Member Shelden: So, your saying there would be not wording on any of this? Mr. Scroggins: We had talked about putting a sign out. Maybe a cedar board sign. Might have a little explanation on it. Committee Member Shelden: Probably should don't you think? Committee Member Lewis: I think so, tourist would probably, at least .... Mr. Scroggins: That's something we talked about. Mr. Winston: He won't let us do it inside. Mr. Scroggins: He wants the monument itself as .... the monument itself, and if it's something else ..... Ms. Loper: This boy is fourteen years old? Mr. Scroggins: Seventeen. He's a senior at Sohi. Mr. Winston: I kind of like this plan right here. Here's a model of what it would look like. The tallest one was ten foot, but then we started talking about the City of Kenai and liability if someone were to maneuver them self onto one of these ..... I don't know why this one struck me, I like it. Different committee members commenting at once. Mr. Winston: I guess the beauty of this one, is that it's not going to be real expensive to build. And the idea behind it is appropriate, I think. Committee Member Selby: How big of an area is that wall? Mr. Winston: The rock wall is approximately twenty feet and the hedge is (inaudible) four foot sidewalk going in the middle. Tree here and the monolith here. Several committee members speaking and going over the design at once. KENAI BEAUTIFICATION MEMORIAL PARK COMMITTEE March 24, 1987 page -11- Committee Member Selby: I don't feel like this should be the focal point of the park at all. Vice Chairman Jackson: He has a lot of other plans over here so if you feel so inclined and want to look at them, just get up. Committee Member Selby: Does anybody else feel like I do or I am the lone ranger? I don't know if this would, but I feel real strongly that what ever is put in there should not be the focal point of the whole park, because that's not what the original plan for the park was. It was to be a Memorial Park for people to remember their loved ones. I think that that's fine, but I don't, I can't seem to see how much of the park that it going to take up. Ms. Loper: This is fifteen feet and I think they're talking about just a little bit bigger and is the inside...? Committee Member Selby: This looks like thirty-two feet here. Ms. Loper: Is this just the inside of the fountain or the outside of the fountain .... or... Group talking at once. Dr. Hansen: I guess I have got some real concerns here that I'd like to share with .... One of my big concerns is this is a beautiful, this is a beautiful veteran's memorial. I mean it just is, really, I'm impressed with the design and the work that the vets have done on it, but I think that what really concerns me is in our town, where we've got really, a pretty good size amount of park land, to take a beautiful memorial like this, or monument, and setting, and put it in a piece of land that really, when we really look at it, what thing.we've done to go into. We don't have a whole lot of extra area here for, for things like this, along with the original intent, which was that of, of allowing people to plant memorial tree, that a living memorial to people that have passed on. And, I'm wondering if, if this size of a monument, memorial, wouldn't it be better to it being in another park setting or some where,.., we've got lots of other beautiful green areas around the city. Just seems KENAI BEAUTIFICATION MEMORIAL PARK COMMITTEE March 24, 1987 page -12- like this in itself is, is really a beautiful city addition, and I think what, you know what we're trying to do with the Memorial Park right here is also a city addition, and I wondering if this, if your along the same line, and if this wouldn't receive more people visiting it, spending time in it, if it were, I think we could draw people to two different areas of the town to look at both of these. Tourist and people that are coming into our town and people that like to move here, rather than bringing everybody right to a congested area, which is, really it's right down town, and probably some day it's going to be right in the center of the down town area. Committee Member: (inaudible) in the end there, when you look out of my window and you see it's a light pole there, and gee, that's right where your going to (inaudible) Mr. Winston: I'd like to speak one more time. We do have council's permission to use this site. Where on the site is up to Beautification Committee, and the type of memorial that we put has also got to go through the Beautification Committee and the Council. But, I really think that this size plan being fifteen by thirty and this spot right here, which is a purposed sidewalk, which won't be built, I imagine, unless the funds magically appear. By adding the Veteran's Memorial here, which will actually be on a North/South, so it'll sit this way, probably just a little bit over this line, well, will tie in that purposed sidewalk, which will be built by veteran's, not at the expense of the city. And I think that the size of each of those three will compliment, because they are approximately the same size. Committee Member Shelden: Well, it's my feeling if you have a memorial where people can walk to it, that you should have names or something of interest in there that they can, you know, if this something that they have to get out and walk .... In Memorials I've seen for Veteran's, like where I came from, it was a pyramid plaque and each time somebody at the area was lost in battle or whatever, their name was added with a little name tag onto that pillar, so that when you did walk up to it, it wasn't a big thing, it was in a park setting like that also. It didn't dominate anything, but you did have names, something of interest, so that as KENAI BEAUTIFICATION MEMORIAL PARK COMMITTEE March 24, 1987 page -13- you walking you could, and this, really seem like it has much of that wrong. It seems like .... after you look at, any interest. I doesn ' t mean is Committee Member Selby: The it, but, as far a stranger, wouldn't know. artist knows what he put into if I'm not looking at it you Mr. Scroggins: You have to realize what his To look at it to appreciate what he's saying. statement is. Committee Member Shelden: But, most of us aren't that deep. Mr. Winston: The two plan, that we three plan .... number three, I talked about the number awarded number two prize. The number Committee Member: Which was the the one that you liked, this number number two plan? That's two? Mr. Winston: Yes, that I personally like. The number three plan that we accepted was this, and the, it's a real terrible drawing, but the idea is an M-1 with a helmet on top. And then he has a drawing on the back on how he sees that setting in the park setting. As a Memorial Committee, we were thinking about putting it and fitting into this plan and that's one of the main reasons why we come back (inaudible) recommendations, thinking it will fit better. Vice Chairman Jackson: I know you've already got the approval of Council as to the location. I'm kind of like Dr. Hansen here. My first idea, when you talked about a Veteran's Memorial, was spreading it out, what I was thinking was, down there they got that, what is it the plaque, Blue Star Memorial. Blue Star Memorial, being the same sort of the same type of thing as a Veteran's Memorial. But, there again, of course it's all this darn right of way the State takes. What they expect to do, six lane highway or what, but .... Mrs. Hansen: I think the Veteran's Memorial would show up better if it had more surroundings to it. I think it would show up better. Be more outstanding to people, you know people would know where it was.. KENAI BEAUTIFICATION MEMORIAL PARK COMMITTEE March 24, 1987 page -14- Committee Member Shelden: Those are thoughts to begin with, why we suggested along the Spur Road, was so that you could drive by and it would dominate, that would be your only thought. The Veteran's Memorial. Where it may get lost in this especially if there's no wording here or anything. Mrs. Hansen: It would get lost. I don't think people driving by would even know it was there. That would be very unfortunate, because, personally I think it, personally I think a Veteran's Memorial is very important to have, really. Committee Member Shelden: Were the reasons that the veteran's wanted it in the park was because, because it was going to be a show place, because it was tied in with the Memorial spot. Mr. Winston: We looked at several sites and as a committee, think that that is the best spot in town. We talked about several at the Council meeting. But that's the site we've been working on every since the Council gave us permission to do some thing. Councilwoman Bailie: Mark, has the committee given any thought to the area that the replica of the one that's in Washington D.C. was placed, over there by the Vet Center. The area that's grass, it's all grass, I think it's going to be one of ..... I think, you know, there was flowers planted there last year, I think it's a beautiful setting. I think it's one that can be seen from, for example, parking right there, the only reason that, that came to my mind is the fact that it is in walking distance of the center. I think that would, think that's something that would be important. I don't know, I think the vet's themselves, I don't know how many times, .... I, I think the show of faces is at the center, but I would imagine that there is quite a comings and goings and I think that it would be, you know, in regards to my own thinking was it would be close to the center so that you could walk to, it would be seen from the Spur and I think it's important to keep in mind the idea of something alone by itself, always stands out more than something that is combined with other, especially if your talking about, similar to this, where there would be very little wording. It would be shame to go to all this work, KENAI BEAUTIFICATION MEMORIAL PARK COMMITTEE March 24, 1987 page -15- especially since this will be the only one in the State. I think we should do our utmost to make sure that it is shown off, to the best possible, I think it's a beautiful idea. I know when this idea was formed, had some individuals from the Chamber come in, they said instead of doing it in that area there, why don't you do it down at the Chamber Cabin, because we would really love for some beautification efforts to be put in there, and the thought coming back to them was that we certainly hope that this was just a beginning. That this type of an idea can, can you imagine how beautiful our town could become if we were to do this in more than just one area, and this was initially chosen because of the fact that it is an area that has been set aside for, that can never be built upon, and so that is why this was decided initially for that. But, I think it would be a real shame if for any reason we decided to locate only all of our memorials, as is this type in this particular area, and that if for any reason, down the line, that they will .... am I making myself .... I don't... Committee Member Selby: That it was lost upon the community. The importance of it. Committee Member Lewis: I joined the committee after the site was agreed on by the committee, this is kind of new to me, but I like the reasoning behind, over here, over there, and getting it lost. I agreed with it totally, and I would have to go back .... Mr. Winston: That's a really good point for why we should be in there. We have got a Memorial Park that is going to have memorial trees planted all around it and I think that's, that's a real good point why the Veteran's Memorial belongs in, or on that piece of property. It won't get lost. Will add a sidewalk, connecting to, either between the fountain and the gazebo, or somewhere coming off the path from the fountain, perhaps a, another loop sidewalk coming off the other side of the fountain with a walk way to the Veteran's Memorial. I think it would add, not detract or (inaudible). Mrs. Hansen: I think that the Veteran's Memorial is really wonderful to have. And I thinking that in a spot, area, such as that, I'm wondering if, don't you think that there KENAI BEAUTIFICATION MEMORIAL PARK COMMITTEE Mar ch 24, 1987 page -16- are too many structures on one piece? Of land? Committee Member from them all. Selby: And I think it's going to detract Mrs. Hansen: I think you want to have more of a park like atmosphere with the trees and flowers, and shrubs. I think that with each memorial we have, we should make sure that there is not too many structures, because I think, we want each one to sta~nd out and be seen. I think that is important. Do you think that the Veteran's Memorial is really standing out that we can see? Mr. Winston: I agree, I think that it should but that's the site, I still think (inaudible) Mrs. Hansen: I feel that, structures around (inaudible) that, I'm wondering about kind of a lot of structures. Dr. Hansen: Something that we haven't talked about much about since around, I think it was around November, the last meeting that Karolee and I both came to, somehow we, we either didn't get notices or maybe meetings didn't meet through the holidays in January, I'm not sure, but the last meeting we attended, Memorial Park/Beautification Committee, we had presented a concept of (inaudible) sculpture of this sort along with the water fountain here, so that in the winter time when there is no water flowing, there's still something that will bring the people to walk through the park and look at these areas. Of course, the Veteran's Memorial is one of those drawing cards that will 'draw people to look at something like this. That was also the plan that the Leif Hansen Memorial family and friends were putting together for a sculpture with water fountain right here. And, you know, just, it seems like maybe we've got a couple of things that are in competition, that are both really going to be first in Alaska. I think that perhaps we're going to have the first fountain in a park, that I've seen around the State. I think we're going to have the first Veteran's Memorial like this for the Viet Nam War, and I think both are really significant. Things that are going to bring people here to our community and it's just, cause I think about the cities and towns that we go through, Kansas City, Minneapolis, St. Paul, towns that have developed their KENAI BEAUTIFICATION MEMORIAL PARK COMMITTEE Mar ch 24, 1987 page -17- parks well, in different parts of the town and usually you'll see some, some sculpture or some oil, or something like this that stands up above the ground, it tends to draw people to come and find out what it is. To come and look at it. And I've really got some reservations about our bringing all these things right into one piece of ground together, when they're really trying to see our city develope, different parts of the city to draw people, different parts of the down town area, rather than one place. And, Mark I don't want you to feel that I'm against it, that we're opposed to what this is, I think that this is a beautiful, this is really a very fine memorial, and I'm not so sure that it shouldn't be twenty or thirty feet high, if it were in the right place with plenty land around it would seem like twenty or thirty feet high in the middle of a big expansive area of grass would just really be a drawing card and that's something that people would read about in Mile Post and they're going to come to Kenai and see this. Mr. Winston: I appreciate that, I appreciate that a lot because one of the main reasons that I got involved in this project, I'm not a veteran, and I agree that this is a good project, but one of the main reasons that I got involved in it was the veterans sometimes do things the hard way and I didn't want to see you or Karolee get hurt when these guys come in take a look at that piece of land for a Veteran's Memorial. They can't, they can't take that piece of property, it's city land and put their son's name on it, and I'm afraid that that would .... I just didn't want to see that happen, and it took, it took a whole lot of talking to keep these guys from coming back and saying, you know, you can't have that name on a piece of city ..... Sally and I have had this conversation and I was ..... Councilwoman Bailie: I think there was just some misunderstanding there and everyone, the idea was one of several people, other than the Hansen's themselves. In regards to name in addition, and the, whoever, I think that people that I spoke with, everyone thought it was a wonderful idea that it be named after such a remarkable young man. I think another thing needs to be kept in mind, and Pete kind of touched on it. I think we are unique as a community in that we have so many City lands are dedicated to park land, to recreation areas that cannot built on. So KENAI BEAUTIFICATION MEMORIAL PARK COMMITTEE March 24, 1987 page -18- that would be very conducive to things such as this. As Kayo knows, I think we probably have more park land than any community our size in the whole, maybe in the whole nation, who knows, and you know I think sometimes in making decision like this, you have to look down the road a few years, to see, whereas, you know, we certainly don't want it just developed one poor area and have everything else, it's almost like, you know, putting sewer and water and paving in just one area and then just, until everything is completely taken care of there and then you go out into an area, it would be nice to, to coordinate this effort and maybe to, and this would maybe be a good test, or I don't know if that's the right word, but to go ahead and look at other areas within the community that we would like to beautify. You know, for example, we do have the Triangle Park in front of the airport. Committee Member Shelden: That was what was going through my mind .... Councilwoman Bailie: Who's to say, I don't know, maybe that would be a spot for, but you know Mark, you know, I don't know, this is what I'm saying, there are so many areas in this community that we need to look at that I think, I think there is a lot of merit to this design and it, like you say, it's almost like having every beautiful building in one small area. Mr. Winston: Talk about the Airport Triangle site, as a real option, is because there is no place to, that's not a spot where you want people to get out of their car and go, go to. It's streets on all three sides. Ms. Loper: We just talked about that when you talking about putting benches in there so people could walk down and eat the ir lunch. Most people wouldn't. They'd want to be in their vehicles where ever they parked, probably ..... Committee Member Shelden: Of course this area won't have that type of parking (inaudible) so that people walking through there, but there's not that kind of parking .... Mr. Winston: Much safer, much safer .... (inaudible) KENAI BEAUTIFICATION MEMORIAL PARK COMMITTEE March 24, 1987 page -19- Ms. Loper: On Frontage, there actually is parking there, along the curb, where at the Airport Way, there's no parking, you have to park at the airport and walk across. (inaudible) there's no reason for them to do so right now. Committee Member that all roadway? Shelden: Is there parking there, isn't Director McGillivray: Frontage? Well, there's no marked parking, they can't park along. Ms. Loper: Well, there's no parking where you head in, but there's enough of a way there that you can park next to it. Anyway, that's what Keith said. Mr. Winston: Anyway, what's going to happen if, want to see a group of veteran's down there protest. I hope that doesn't happen. if, I don't standing in Committee Member Shelden: As that this was, when somebody would you rather .... a veteran, was looking would you rather at a memorial, Mr. Scroggins: As an individual or a committee member? Committee Member Shelden: As an individual... Mr. Scroggins: As an individual I'd out in the middle with nothing around like to see it right it, as a focal point. Committee Member because when you lonely... Shelden: I would to, as think of the veteran, you an individual, think of... as Mr. Scroggins: But I back street some place within six months. don't want it lost some place on a where it's put out and forgotten Vice Chairman Jackson: I agree there, because you've already decided that this be a memorial park with trees. And those trees are going to grow and it's a matter of five ten years, the trees are going to have the whole thing covered to where even the gazebo and so forth, if it's not, if we don't, pretty cautious with where these trees are KENAI BEAUTIFICATION MEMORIAL PARK COMMITTEE March 24, 1987 page -20- planted, why it's going to be completely obliterated from view. And I agree, I would like to see more parks, and now, and that's what I'd like to suggest here right now, so we can get on, is that all the designated park lands of the city be brought forth and let's see if there is a spot where we all could decide that maybe there's a better place than this, where it will stand out and maybe we don't want to put a lot of .... I would like for this memorial, for my part, you've got a hedge around it, but I would like to have that one tree there, course that tree may last a while, maybe I'd replace it, but that one tree and nothing out except flower beds and lawn around it. So now we've got something out here and I'm two blocks away but I can see... Mr. Winston: You'd like to see a magnificent tree. Just one hugh ..... Vice Chairman Jackson: One tree that would grow out, but at the same time I want this memorial to stand out in front of it. To where ..... Mr. Winston: Do we have ..... can we have the Beautification Committee's approval of this plan for the Veteran's Memorial? Vice Chairman Jackson: I can look at the rest, but, from my part, why I say yes. I would rather have the veteran's say that this is the one that they would like and as a committee, a Beautification Committee that we go ahead and say yes, that's the one that we should have, but, the location of it, there again, I'm like Sally, I think where there's nothing obliterating that area, and looks out back there, you could even, like I say, well, the boy though says he doesn't want it any higher, but ten foot will stand out back there if there is the rock and then we could get flowers and flower beds out front and some grass growing. I think that could be very pretty. And there again, it would be attracted to, why, balls games are played in that area and such as that. Mrs. Hansen: A lot of young people around that area. A lot of young people. Vice Chairman Jackson: But, not to say that is the area. KENAI BEAUTIFICATION MEMORIAL PARK COMMITTEE March 24, 1987 page -21- What I'd rather us do, if we could have Kayo bring in just a plat of where the different park areas there are in the town and then let's make a decision then. And not rule out this. I'm just giving my reasons why I would have it some place else. Hate to have it covered up with a lot of trees. You know, I'm from prairie country, I like one tree. Mr. Winston: So Sally where does that put us as far as the City Council? Councilwoman Bailie: I think Mark, basically the council pretty much wanted it to go before the Beautification Committee anyway. I think initially the, you know, the permission was given in regards to that location, you know, down at that end. I think that the council probably would, it would fine, I think explaining it such as today, that the fact that looking at other areas because this has been discussed. It was discussed in the council in this concept first came up, was the idea that it would start here, but hopefully this would be a concept that would be carried throughout because we're extremely concerned, we have an awful lot of park land Mark. I don't know if you realize how much of our land is park land. For example the municipal park, we've talked about that, of going in there. Right now, it isn't a municipal park. It isn't an area that a family can go on a Sunday afternoon and have a picnic or whatever, because of the campers, of problems that people going in there in living for weeks, and then Kayo's, his crews have been through this fall. So we've talked about even going in there and opening it up and making it an area where you could come and you could throw a frisbee or you could have, you know, making that a beautiful park land. That would possibly be another area. What I'm saying is there's a lot of areas in this community that, where this structure could be placed and could be really viewed very well. Committee Member Shelden: That Blue Star Memorial section, I think something magnificent should go in there. I do not like this little .... Committee Member Hakkinen: What is that Blue Star Memorial anyway? KENAI BEAUTIFICATION MEMORIAL PARK COMMITTEE Mar ch 24, 1987 page -22- Vice Chairman Jackson: The Blue Star Memorial is a memorial to the, actually it started down the lower 48, but the garden club started the Blue Star Memorial for, I think it was Navy Veteran's. Dr. Hansen: The Blue Star Memorial there, across the United States there's certain highways that have been identified and proclaimed Blue Star Memorial Highways, and you see one, like what we have down here at various places across the country, but only on those highways that tend to be scenic and tend~ to have an historic, something historic associated with them in general. The garden clubs have had a lot to do with this and I don't really fully understand how it was set up. Vice Chairman Jackson: Garden clubs have taken over. You'll see another one of those Blue Star Memorials down here by Anchor Point, there's one down there. Ms. Loper: The problem with the area down in the Blue Star Memorial though, is anything this big will block view of traffic and I'm pretty sure DOT will say right off the bat, that it couldn't go there, and besides, I think probably that the shop owners, Perkins and Pizza Place will probably object to having their parking places taken up by people visiting the memorial. That's just a thought. Several committee members talking at once, in general to do with parking and a park over towards the highway... Councilwoman Bailie: Pete do you own the parking over there? Dr. Hansen: No. It's public parking Committee Member Shelden: What's your feeling? Mr. Winston: That the Veteran's Memorial would be a fantastic addition to the Leif Hansen Memorial. We talking about only adding to it's beauty. And if those sites that the committee recommended, site number one, between the gazebo and fountain, or site number two, on the north, kind of Quick Stop side of the fountain, aren't acceptable, perhaps then push it a little bit further towards Dan's TV KENAI BEAUTIFICATION MEMORIAL PARK COMMITTEE Mar ch 24, 1987 page -23- end, and we'll go through the three month battle with the State to get it over that line, cause I'm sure that's really not going to be that much of a problem. Or perhaps, to this Uptown Motel side. There's all kinds of room. Ms. Loper: That's a gully though. And there's utility .... Mr. Winston: Beautification another one. If there's no site on this park that the Committee feels is acceptable, we'll find Councilwoman Bailie: That's probably what .... Mr. Winston: But I still, I still believe that, I sure wish I had a ruler, because when I say fifteen feet, I would say that's the height of the gazebo and I still feel that north to south, I wish I had a scale drawing of what this purposed memorial would look like on here. Committee Member Selby: Thirty-two feet long.. Mr. Winston: At thirty-two feet long is, quarter inch ruler to draw it on that site. is, we need a Discussion by several members at once regarding the width of the room. Mr. Winston: This fountain is bigger. those on there. So, thirty foot right here and this it's approximately the same size as Mrs. Hansen: In all the cities that, that we have been where they had fountains, and memorials, and statues, I never, we've never been in a place where they have had a whole bunch of things together. And personally I don't think, I think when you get to many things together, I don't think it's beautiful. And that's the way I feel. I think they would detract from each other and I think it, all these structures would be so much more beautiful. I don't understand the psychological, the veteran's not wanting, you know, I don't understand that, because, I think what Sally was trying to say that, that she has spoken to a lot of people who have lived here in Kenai a great many years and they were all very happy about it and I don't personally KENAI BEAUTIFICATION MEMORIAL PARK COMMITTEE March 24, 1987 page -24- feel, I don't think a group of people should be, should tell that it's not right. I don't think it's right of them to do that. I think it detracts from that organization myself, and I think in the long run, looking long, I think, I think that it would be a much more beautiful place all by itself and I think that, like in Kansas City where we go, you walk around town. Each little place has it's own little place, and you walk, you walk another block and there's another fountain, and you walk two more blocks on the road and there's another fountain, and there not all stuck together. I don't th ink that's right. Councilwoman Bailie: You know and I think we can start using land marks too, I mean, you know, for example, it could be down by the Veteran's Memorial, as to locate for whatever it might be. Down by the gazebo. You know, the Log Cabin. I think this is one way in which, because we are a community that's very spread out when you think about it, it's extremely difficult to .... Committee Member Shelden: That's my thinking on it. could be so beautiful as an isolated thing. I mean, thinking about this awesome isolated view point with beautiful flowers around and that's the only thought comes to peoples' mind when they see this, is that it's Veteran's Memorial and what they did, you know, for country. That' s when we view th is. This your the that the our the only thought we should have in mind Mr. Winston: Well, I just have one talking about a Memorial Park and of memory. And, we're having a little bit of trouble detracting from the Leif Hansen Memorial Park idea, think of it, and the size is another objection to Veteran's Memorial that it would be large and maybe over, dominate the, the aesthetics of the park, but thirty foot size with one tree and one monument is, is more thing. We're planting trees in with but the take the kind of like just two trees that are being planted out there in memory. Only that these are veterans. In plans for the park somebody may come along and say, well, here's a spot where I'd like to put my tree in memory. And that's what the veterans are saying. Here's the spot where we'd like to put our tree in memory with a hedge around it. KENAI BEAUTIFICATION MEMORIAL PARK COMMITTEE March 24, 1987 page -25- Committee Member Selby: I feel like that this personally, I feel like that they'll detract from one another, and I don't think the park itself and the fountain and the gazebo and the lighting and all, will be as attractive, or the Veteran's Memorial won't be as attractive if they're all put in that same area. They're going to detract from one another instead of making it nicer. Vice Chairman Jackson: Let's have, I guess Kayo's got all of the plats of city park, designated park lands. Bring that back to the, our next meeting and we'll look at it. Not ruling out that this still could be, this could be the only spot that we in the end have, but let's explore some of the others and see what the attributes and anything that might be detracting from another spot from the memorials. We can have three or four memorial parks. It doesn't have to be just one memorial park, it couldn't be a Veteran's Memorial Park and plot it out, and that's exactly what it is and designate it just to veterans. Committee Member Lewis: What about the monument design at this point? Mr. Winston: That's what I was going to ask. Vice Chairman Jackson: The monument design, is everybody got a feeling that this is the best? I think it's great. And as far as I'm concerned we can ..... Committee Members speaking at once, in general, all in favor of design. Dr. Hansen: Well, I've just got a comment here that I'd like to toss in and if this were going to be somewhere else, I think this is a great design, I'd like to see it be a little higher. Vice Chairman Jackson: But the boy says no. Committee Member Selby: How tall is this ceiling? Vice Chairman Jackson: This is nine foot, so it'll be a foot higher than this. KENAI BEAUTIFICATION MEMORIAL PARK COMMITTEE Mar ch 24, 1987 page -26- Committee Member Selby: That'll be nice. Committee Member Hakkinen: Are you on that committee for this? How many are on that committee? Mr. Scroggins: Yes. Committee Member Hakkinen: What I'd like to know is how they would feel about another site, possibly? Mr. Scroggins: Well, I think that Mark knows more about that than I do. Vice Chairman Jackson: Well, there again, I think with the idea that there are possibilities of other sites, possibilities of naming another park and designated strictly to veterans. I think that that is the thing that impresses me most, is that in most cases where you see big Veteran's Memorials, it's a Veteran's Memorial Park. And we've already designated this to Leif Hansen Memorial Park, so let's have another park and let's have a Veteran's Memorial Park and we'll start on getting it designed and getting beautified. Committee Member Shelden: The one thing though, I think there should be some identification for these young men. I know your wanting public funds and I think you would have a lot more following and sentimentality there if people were contributing to a certain, you know, person that they knew. Your going to get more of a community feeling if it .... Mr. Scroggins: This is a monument to all veterans. I heard Viet Nam Veteran's brought up a while ago. I'm a Viet Nam Veteran. I would have nothing to do with this if it was a Viet Nam Veteran Memorial. It's a memorial to all veterans of all time. Committee Member Shelden: Right, but all I'm saying is, is certain young men of the area, not, maybe not to be placed on the memorial itself, which ever way you want to do it, but I've also see it where they've had a glass plaque and names of young men of the community have been inserted in that glass case, separate from .... KENAI BEAUTIFICATION MEMORIAL PARK COMMITTEE March 24, 1987 page -27- Mr. Scroggins: Oregon did a living memorial to the Viet Nam Veterans with a tree planted here and a little stone with a plaque on it with the servicemen's name on it, down the trail there'd be another one. That's an interesting concept. When this came about I talked to Thebaut, Jim Thebaut, said if it's a living memorial, count me in, cause I like that idea. I like the living versus the death concept. Committee Member Shelden: So, you people didn't like the idea of the names being placed. Mr. Scroggins: I have nothing against that. But, as the committee this is what we came up with and the concept. Councilwoman Bailie: The only things is, and I kind of echo Roseanna's comments, I think it's a beautiful idea, but I thinks it's one that should be explained. I think the idea behind the tree, you know, that we are looking at life goes on, and that, you know, I think it'd be a real shame if that wasn't explained. I think it's just a compliment to the young man and his design. Mr. Scroggins: Right. It'll have his name. Councilwoman Bailie: But, I think, the idea .... Vice Chairman Jackson: If it's named the Veteran's Memorial Park, then, out here where the sign is, Veteran's Memorial Park, then an explanation of what the park is and what the memorial is, and what the memorial is, that it could be, it doesn't have to be right at the memorial. Would you take that back and do a little thinking, we think about, we'll think some more about it, and we'll bring it up at our next meeting. Committee Member Selby: I'd like to make one more comment if I may. Every place that Ed and I have ever gone with our family or by ourselves, we always kind of look to see and Ed's not a veteran, but we just always go to look at the Veteran's Memorial where ever they are, and where ever we see one, it's just been by itself and we just, like when you go to the Arizona in Hawaii, it's just, that's it and there's places in California where the memorial, the KENAI BEAUTIFICATION MEMORIAL PARK COMMITTEE March 24, 1987 page -28- Veteran's Memorial is just the Veteran's Memorial and people come just to see that. I know we did. We go just for that. And, I don't know if I'd like it if there was other stuff around it, as well, you know. 6. NEW BUSINESS a. Vice Chairman Jackson: Okay, we'll go on. I see Suzanne Little is not here. Does anyone have anything on these banners. The committee members discussed the price list from two different companies and memorandum submitted by Ms. Loper. Committee Member Hakkinen: The only thing about banners and myself is, I know so little about them, I wouldn't even want to begin to suggest anything on this because I don't know anything about them. Brackets and sizes were discussed among the committee members. Ms. Loper also asked all companies to send samples of materials. Ms. Loper indicated companies warned her about keeping designs extremely simple because of the costs involved. 7. PARKS & RECREATION Director McGillivray reported that the snow is melting and it won't be long. (Minutes of Parks & Recreation were not available to this committee at packet time). 8. COMMITTEE COMMENTS & QUESTIONS Ms. Loper reported on a meeting she attended in Anchorage. This is a combined agency group working on a point system for wet lands permits 9 . ADJOURNMENT _ ,, The meeting was adjourned at 3:00 p.m. Niva A. Aburto dba/Niva's Clerical Services for the City of Kenai