HomeMy WebLinkAbout1996-02-27 Historic District Board SummaryHISTORIC DISTRICT BOARD
FEBRUARY 27, 1996- 7:00 p.m.
~~AGENDA~~
Kenai Council Chambers
Chair Dorothy Gray
1. ROLL CALL:
a. Election of Officers
2. APPROVAL OF AGENDA:
3. APPROVAL OF MINUTES:
November 20, 1995
January 23, 1996 (Info Only)
4. PERSONS PRESENT SCHEDULED TO BE HEARD:
5. HISTORIC BOARD REVIEW:
6. NEW BUSINESS:
7. OLD BUSINESS:
a. Preservation Plan, Goals & Mission Statement
b. Review of Sign Code
8. REPORTS:
9. INFORMATION:
a. Vozar Development Memo from Robert Springer
b. Letter to Ms. Elliott dated January 30, 1995
c. Letter to Janet Clemens dated January 30, 1995
d. Alaska Assoc. for Historic Preservation Nomination Form
10. BOARD QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS:
1 1. ADJOURNMENT:
1. ROLL CALL:
HISTORIC DISTRICT BOARD
FEBRUARY 27, 1996
MINUTES
UNAPPROVED
Chair person Gray welcomed the new board members, Rebecca Godek and Bill
Kluge.
Members Present:
Members Absent:
Others Present:
Dorothy Gray, Kim Booth, Rebecca Godek, Alan Boraas,
Mike Huhndorf, Ethel Clausen
None
Councilman Duane Bannock, City Engineer Jack La Shot,
Administrative Assistant Marilyn Kebschull
a. Election of Officers
ALAN BORAAS MOVED THAT DOROTHY GRAY REMAIN CHAIR PERSON.
MOTION SECONDED BY KlM BOOTH. UNANIMOUS.
ALAN BORAAS MOVED THAT MIKE HUHNDORF BE VICE-CHAIR. KlM BOOTH
SECONDED THE MOTION. UNANIMOUS.
2. APPROVAL OF AGENDA:
3. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: November 20, 1995
January 23, 1996 (Info Only)
Klm Booth requested her last name spelling be corrected on the November 20th
minutes under Members Present.
KlM BOOTH MOVED THAT THE MINUTES OF THE NOVEMBER 20TM MEETING BE
APPROVED. MOTION SECONDED BY ETHEL CLAUSEN. UNANIMOUS.
4. PERSONS PRESENT SCHEDULED TO BE HEARD:
5. HISTORIC BOARD REVIEW:
6. NEW BUSINESS:
7. OLD BUSINESS:
a. Preservation Plan, Goals & Mission Statement
Gray stated that Huhndorf had drawn up the Goals and Mission Statement for the
January 23~" meeting and the group needed to review the statement, make
suggestions, etc. Kluge asked what has been done on the missions that are stated
and how long as the board been in existence. Gray responded this is the second
year. Kluge asked to be brought up to date with the activities of the board for the
past year or so. Kluge added he would like to know what the group has done, etc.
Gray noted that Kluge had a good comment and that perhaps the group should
take each section and discuss it.
Gray read number one, "To make specific recommendations to Kenai City Council
relating to matters of historical and cultural concern. Areas of interest included in
the Townsite Historic District are' Nominations of historic places for the National
Register and protection of archeological resources." Huhndorf stated he thought
that is what the board is doing at the present time regarding the Shkituk' Village.
Gray explained that one of the things the board had done last year was to
designate the original village site of the Kenaitze people which is up river from the
Senior Center. Kluge asked if there was grant moneys approved for signs. Gray
stated not yet and offered Kluge a copy of the letter which had been received
regarding the grant. Kluge asked if any surveys have been done for nominations for
the National Register. Gray stated that not yet but one of the first steps the board
had taken was to survey the historical sites in the city. The survey is in the
process of being completed. Gray noted the survey is due March 1 5t~ and it has
been being worked on for six month. This survey was funded by a grant. Gray
stated that when the group began they had felt that they needed to identify what
they had before moving on to make any recommendations. In the meantime, the
Shkituk' Village site was being worked on. One of the ideas that has been
considered is to nominate the site for the National Historic Register. Kluge asked if
that was all city property. Gray stated some was city property and some was
owned by the Russian Orthodox Church. Gray added that the village site and the
cemetery was granted in the early 1 900's to the Russian Orthodox Church when
Alaska natives could not have property. Boraas stated he wasn't sure if that was
true as to how the church got the property. Huhndorf stated he recalled that in
1 924 because of having served in World War I the rights to ownership of property
were granted.
Bannock stated that returning to line one of the mission statement, for a mission
statement for the Townsite Historic Board that technically recommendations are to
the Planning & Zoning Commission as opposed to the city council. Bannock
explained that the Townsite Historic Board is a board of the Planning & Zoning
Commission. Boraas asked if on item one that the boards area of concern was only
the Townsite Historic District or the boundaries of the city relating to matters of
historical importance. Gray stated it is not limited to the district. Boraas stated
that the wording may need to be changed. (Discussion about the wording of the
ordinance and how the Mission Statement should read.) Huhndorf stated this
raises the question of how far reaching are the Board's concerns. Bannock stated
that remembering when the ordinance was written, the Board's powers are not
necessarily devoted only to the Townsite Historic District. Bannock added that he
didn't feel the Board is precluded from going outside of the District; however, it
would be precluded from going outside of the City of Kenai. Bannock stated that
he believed by ordinance that they Board is asked to take part in any decisions
Historic District Board Minutes Page 2
February 27, 1996
within the Townsite Historic Zone but that doesn't' mean the Board couldn't take on
a project on Beaver Loop for example. Gray read from the ordinance stating it says
"...within the boundaries of the city." Booth asked if it should read then, "areas of
interest within the boundaries of the city..." Kluge stated he felt that would be
appropriate. Gray asked then if they should delete Townsite Historic District.
Boraas stated change it to City of Kenai.
Boraas stated that on item 2 he would change heritage to history in the first
sentence. Huhndorf stated that he had used that word because it included cultural
elements. .
Gray asked for comments on item 3.
as to education of the public.
Gray stated she felt number 3 was important
Gray asked for comments on item 4. Gray stated they could bring Kluge up to date
on item 3. One of the things that was applied for in the grant was to have
historical signs in conjunction with the Rotary Club who would supply labor for
signage in Old Town historical building designated from the survey. These would
be standard signs. Kluge asked if this was a separate grant from the village sign.
Gray stated it was the same grant but separate locations. Huhndorf added that a
walking tour was suggested and examples were provided from other locations such
as Juneau. Kluge commented that having worked with the Rotary Club on signs
that the board may want to discuss the permanency of the signs. Kluge noted that
they had done cedar signs which require upkeep and they may want to use
something which doesn't require as much upkeep. Kluge asked if they would be
discussing that tonight. Gray noted the sign code is something different. Kluge
stated it is something the group may want to discuss. Gray stated that when the
grant was developed the people who participated liked the wooden signs because
they felt it was in keeping with the nature of the area. Those being wood, natural,
Alaskan, etc. Kluge stated he appreciates that but that he had just had contact
with the city maintenance person regarding the Visitor's Center. That building is
five years old and needs to be restained.
Gray asked if number three was okay. Booth stated that another thing that had
been discussed that once the signs were up brochures would be made and then
available at the Visitor Center. Kluge stated in conjunction with that during the
Bicentennial there was discussion of developing a trail from the Visitor's Center
past the gardens, to the southwest slope of the bluff, and around through Old
Town. On the brochure it would have shown the facilities offered with a map.
Kluge stated there is an old trail that goes down to the beach.
Gray asked for input on item 4. Gray stated that seems to be in line with what the
group was doing tonight. If the Mayor is going to propose a big plan for the area,
to make the Shkituk Village Site compatible with other things that will be placed
Historic District Board Minutes Page 3
February 27, 1996
around it. Gray asked for suggestions for item 4. Boraas stated he found it
confusing and the wording was not clear. Boraas stated, "Evaluate community
improvements..." Gray suggested, "Be involved with..." Huhndorf gave an
example that if a new building is going up and you can put a painting on it or
something that would express the historical value of the city, similar to the mural
that Olivia did on Oiler's Building. Boraas stated you are not talking necessarily
about the impact on a historic property but when something new is being built how
it could be enhanced to emit a historical message. Huhndorf stated it was just a
suggestion to keep in spirit with the area. Boraas stated then impact isn't the word
you are looking for. Boraas suggested, "...where historical and cultural valued
information can be expressed." Huhndorf commented that every place is
historically or culturally impacted and at this time in history we maybe can define a
cross section of what is and what isn't as it develops. Huhndorf explained what
he meant by the statement giving examples. Huhndorf stated he did mean impact.
Boraas stated it basically fits with number 3. Kluge stated it appears to him that
the Board should do things that are within it's authority and private development is
something else. Unless the board provides guidelines for architectural review or a
review of private projects taking place in the city, the board has no clout. Huhndorf
stated that when he said, "stay in focus" he meant observe or be conscious of.
Kluge said that making suggestions is something that can be done individually but
the authority of the board is not... Gray cut in stating that was covered in number
6. In the ordinance the board has specific review guidelines. Kluge asked that if
making suggestions about community improvements as far as buildings is within
the board's authority? Gray stated it is an advisory capacity. Boraas gave an
example that if someone put up a mural that was offensive to a lot of people such
as was done in Anchorage recently. Kluge asked if when talking about community
improvements, are they talking about private property development and trying to
review improvements. Huhndorf stated yes, to make suggestions. Gray stated
that at the earlier work session part of the Village site is on a large tract of land,
the Daubenspeck property. That property was designated for public purposes and
the Mayor talked about what could happen on this property. Gray stated she sees
number 4 as being an example of this because the board wants to be involved in
the impact of what the other public purposes of this property are going to be.
Kluge stated he sees that as number 1. Kluge stated he was trying to get a clear
definition of what the board was. Kluge stated that quite often in historic districts
they have a set of guidelines for development to keep with the character of the
area. Kluge stated that if they had that, then they should make suggestions for the
historic district. Huhndorf stated he doesn't think history is static. Gray stated
that if you look at the broad spectrum of the functions of the board, one of the
functions is that it is an advisory board to different things that are happening within
the city. The Townsite Historical Zone is not the only historical spot in the City of
Kenai. It is the one that is designated and protected by the ordinance. In that one
by law there are specific guidelines for review procedures and what people can and
cannot build there. Gray added that she sees a function of the board to be like in
Historic District Board Minutes Page 4
February 27, 1996
number 4 where there are other historical properties impacted by development and
if it is possible to combine the two. Like the cannery is built on a site and to
combine history with present industry. Gray gave an example that you can go all
over the United States and see signs telling something that happened on the site in
the past, not to let people forget what happened there. Bannock clarified that
within the Townsite Historic Zone that any building is reviewed by the board.
Boraas stated it is not necessarily a negative thing. It could be that many private
developers would welcome input and information that could enhance their property.
Boraas stated he likes the word "review." "Review community improvements and
make suggestions." Boraas stated that all it means is making suggestions. It
doesn't mean that the board has any stroke to deny, change, or impact in any way.
Boraas commented that he felt number 5 opened a "can of worms." Using the
word objective. Huhndorf stated he had almost used quotation marks and he was
striving to consider all elements in interpretation. Huhndorf stated they could put it
in quotations. Booth asked to help what Huhndorf meant in number 5 versus
number 3 where they are disseminating knowledge. Huhndorf stated he felt
objective was an effort at fairness or awareness of all interpretations or ways of
looking at a story, or a place, or a thing. Huhndorf explained what he meant and
that the items could draw from one another. Huhndorf stated he was trying to
create an awareness of the board's way of doing something. Huhndorf gave an
example of two views of what happened in the American Revolution. Gray asked if
this would work taking number 3 and say, "Disseminate knowledge objectively
through interpretive..." and combine number 3 and 5. Boraas stated he would
suggest the word balance rather than objective because objective sometimes
implies one point of view. Boraas commented that for instance in history books
today kids get so bored with them because they are so objective and leave out the
good stuff. Balanced means telling both sides of the story. Huhndorf asked if it
would be, "Be balanced in the interpretation" or is with okay. Boraas said he would
say, "Be balanced in interpretation." Gray asked if they mean to keep number 5
the same and take out objective or to combine it with number 3. Godek stated she
liked it separate. Boraas stated separate was fine. Huhndorf stated that separation
brings more attention to the element. Gray stated instead of using the word "be"
use maintain or sustain a balance. Boraas suggested, "Present a balanced
interpretation of.."
Gray stated that number 6 specifically deals with the ordinance that was enacted
when the board was established.
Booth asked if they had not had a Mission Statement. Gray stated there was one
as part of the original goals for the board that first began the project. It was
decided that they should be reviewed and that was begun. Huhndorf stated there
was about a half a page of that that he used when making the Mission Statement.
Gray stated that as they were preparing the Preservation Plan they had thought it
Historic District Board Minutes Page 5
February 27, 1996
should be reviewed and updated.
Gray commented there were nine more sections to review. Gray noted that on the
Preservation Plan the Mission Statement and Goals and Objectives were number
one. The survey will be incorporated in the Preservation Plan and that is number 4.
A big chunk of the Preservation Plan will be from the survey. Gray stated that she
and Boraas are supposed to come up with a description of the historic character of
Kenai from pre-history to the present. Boraas offered to put together a draft. Gray
stated they were hoping to take the Plan piece by piece. Boraas asked if there was
a guideline for a length for the description. Discussion on how the report could be
completed using eras. Gray stated this will be on the next agenda.
a. Review of Sign Code
Gray stated that the plan was to review the existing sign code stating that the sign
code in the Townsite Historic Zone doesn't have any specific signage requirements
or limitations. Bannock stated he was surprised that this wasn't addressed in the
TSH ordinance. Booth commented that there are some businesses within the
Historic District that you can only have signage on your personal property; there is
no other means of signage available in the city. Gray stated that in code 20 it says
that "signs shall be allowed in the commercial zone as set forth." Bannock stated
then the same rules for the commercial zone are the rules for TSH. Booth offered a
suggestion that perhaps by the Visitor's Center there could be a sign introducing
the district. Booth explained her idea further as to what could be on the sign. Gray
stated she thought there was something like that back in the area. Booth stated
she just figured out what the sign said the other day. Booth stated she didn't feel
it draws attention noting she is in and out of the parking lot there several times
each day. Bannock asked if there was something specific to Section E of the sign
code that the board doesn't like for the Townsite Historic District. Gray asked
what the size limits were. Bannock stated the largest would be 154 square feet,
not very big. Bannock said that that is for where there is more than one business,
a combined sign shall not exceed 154 square feet. A sign would be 84 square
feet, two sheets of plywood. Bannock said one of the duties of Planning & Zoning
is issuing a variance for a sign permit. Bannock said this would be someone asking
permission before they put their illegal sign up. Bannock noted there are several
variances in Kenai that the group may not even recognize. Bannock noted that the
size allowed is not large and the majority of the people now in the district have
smaller signs. Booth asked if the group was looking for a particular type of material
for the signs. Gray stated that in other areas they have gone to a certain type of
material and Gray gave examples. Gray asked what other things are allowed,
specifically are neon signs allowed Bannock said it doesn't say you can't. You
can have lighted signs, rotating signs, specifically you cannot have a portable,
changeable letter sign. Those are allowed only 7 days, twice a year. Bannock
continued reading the code. Bannock noted that all signs are permitted in
Historic District Board Minutes Page 6
February 27, 1996
commercial zones but specifically they have a size requirement. Discussion about
flashing signs and Bannock gave an example of a sign that was inside a business
window and thus was permitted. Huhndorf asked if you could still do that and
Bannock said yes. If a sign is inside your house, it is technically not a sign.
Bannock also stated there was artwork in Old Town that was debated as to
whether or not it was a sign. Question as to whether or not the beluga at Beluga
RV park was a sign. Huhndorf asked if the intent would determine it. Bannock
stated he recommended that if the Board had a set of rules they would like to see
in Townsite Historic District that they could write and offer as an amendment to
the code for rules specific to that zone, that there might be good reason for that.
Bannock gave examples of rules in the city. Booth stated that the only way a sign
is reviewed by the board is if it is new construction. Meaning if somebody was
putting up a sign at an existing site, it would not come before the board. Kluge
stated it would only be based on what is allowed in the code. Bannock said if it
was a new sign that met the code, the board wouldn't necessarily see it. Bannock
explained the process for review. Bannock reiterated that if the board is not
comfortable with the system, they need to address it. Booth stated that was the
whole point, is there a way to make signs more aesthetic for the district. Kluge
noted that Gray had several sign code examples and Gray listed the examples she
had. Bannock reiterated that if the board wants to see a specific ordinance they
need to create it to be added to the sign ordinance and those rules would only
apply in the TSH zone. Gray read from Skagway's sign code noting how specific it
is. Booth asked if the board should sit down and create the wording. Bannock
stated he felt they should and then pass it on to Planning & Zoning. Kluge
suggested they paraphrase some of the other codes. Gray stated she wouldn't
want to see it overly limiting. Boraas stated he would like it to be done in
conjunction with some of the businesses in the area noting that businesses seem to
compete with signs. Kluge stated he felt that the code the Huhndorf had from
Juneau had good information and perhaps using that and other examples would be
the way to proceed. Kluge stated he felt that signs in Old Town should not be
flamboyant. Kluge thought perhaps it would be easier to deal with it in a work
session and asked if one was planned for next month. Bannock asked the board to
be careful when suggesting changes because if what is already there is what the
board doesn't want and you limit the next person from doing it, you must be
prepared to justify that position. Bannock gave examples of what could happen.
Booth noted if they want change, that is what they will have to face. Booth stated
she didn't think the intention was to regulate but looking for aesthetics. Godek
stated that opinions differ on what is beautiful. Discussion on what the board's
intention was with recommending a code for the area. Gray stated it will be on the
next agenda and they can look at other cities as examples. Kluge asked that copies
of the other city's codes be provided.
8. REPORTS'
Historic District Board Minutes Page 7
February 27, 1996
9. INFORMATION'
a. Vozar Development Memo from Robert Springer
Kebschull advised that this memo was presented as information only to let the
board know that the Vozars had applied for another permit.
Kluge asked if he could get a packet of information with the ordinance, reviews are
required, etc. Kebschull informed Kluge that the city clerk had sent him that
information; however, if he did not receive it, to let her know.
Kluge asked if a site plan was required. Gray stated yes. Gray explained that the
Vozars had came to the board last year with an incomplete site plan but begged the
board to approve it because of a shortened time schedule. Gray stated that the
board succumbed to the request. Gray stated that evidently when it was submitted
to Planning & Zoning they had fulfilled all requirements because it was approved.
Gray stated they had told the Vozars that the parking spaces had to be delineated
and the landscaping plan in place. They hadn't done that when the board reviewed
the plan. Gray shared a flow chart showing how the permit process works. She
noted that when anyone gets issued a building permit, it is reviewed by staff,
passed to the board, and then to Planning & Zoning. Gray reiterated that building
permits in the Townsite Historic Zone are supposed to come to the board first.
b. Letter to Ms. Elliott dated January 30, 1995
c. Letter to Janet Clemens dated January 30, 1995
Godek asked for an explanation of all the abbreviations. Gray explained CLG is
certified local government which is a title that in order for the board to operate the
board had to fulfill certain requirements under the federal government. Gray stated
there are very specific rules and regulations. Gray stated the people in Anchorage,
OHA, the Office of History and Archeology, are the people who are in charge of
making sure that certified local governments follow the rules. Godek asked what
AHRS stood for. Boraas stated Alaska Historic Resources Survey. Gray explained
they are kind of like a library card containing information about sites. Gray stated
they are behind schedule on the survey. Kebschull explained that it was based on
Preservation North's difficulty with meeting the schedule that the schedule was
revised and that was done on the recommendation of OHA. Gray stated that some
drafts of the report and that copies were available through Kebschull.
d. Alaska Assoc. for Historic Preservation Nomination Form
Gray stated that each year a top ten list of the top ten most endangered properties
in Alaska to create public awareness and to create funding. Gray stated that the
Jesse Lee Home has been on the list before and a Catholic Church in Nome was on
it last year. Gray stated if there was something in this area that the group wanted
Historic District Board Minutes Page 8
February 27, 1996
to nominate, they could do so. Question if it had to be within the City of Kenai.
Boraas stated that anyone can nominate anything. Boraas stated he felt one of the
most important sites was the cabin in Kasilof, the Watchman's Cabin. Boraas said
it is one of the oldest buildings on the peninsula. Gray asked what he thought the
date was on it. Boraas stated it appears in pictures in the 1890's. There is also
the Salty Dawg and a building in Hope. Godek stated they were at the
Watchman's cabin last week and there is plywood on the openings and a sign;
however, could not remember what the sign said. Gray commented that perhaps
Boraas would like to nominate the property and Boraas responded he may do so.
10. BOARD QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS:
Gray advised next meeting will be March 26th, On the next agenda will be the
Preservation Plan part two, signage, and Shkituk' Village.
Huhndorf asked if there was supposed to have been a workshop on Robert's Rules
of Orders in January. Discussion by board that none of the members had received
notification of the workshop. Kebschull advised the group that there is a video that
they may be able to check it out but they should check with the city clerk.
Booth advised she will be out of town at the next meeting.
1 1. ADJOURNMENT'
Meeting adjourned at approximately 8'35 p.m.
Re~ectful~y submitted'
I~laril~n Kebschull
Administrative Assistant
Historic District Board
February 27, 1996
Minutes
Page 9
HISTORIC DISTRICT BOARD
FEBRUARY 27, 1996
WORK SESSION
INTRODUCTIONS'
Historic District Board Members present were Dorothy Gray, Kim Booth, Ethel
Clausen, Alan Boraas, Mike Huhndorf, Rebecca Godek. Also present were' Mayor
John Williams; Council members Hal Smalley and Duane Bannock; City personnel
Jack La Shot, Bob Frates, and Marilyn Kebschull; and citizen Bill Godek.
Mike Huhndorf introduced Kenaitze Indian Tribe representatives Bonnie Julliussen,
June Lindgren-Gagnon, and Aleta Bates. Huhndorf advised that Aleta and June
were tribal elders and Bonnie is the Tribe's community health representative.
OVERVIEW'
Chairperson Gray gave an overview of the project. Gray stated that approximately
a year ago the Townsite Historic Board asked the City Council to designate the
Shkituk' Village Site as a historical site. The Board met with the City Council and
they approved that the area be set aside as an important historical site. After the
site was approved, the Board came up with three goals for last summer. The first
goal was to clean up the area. Gray explained that there had been a lot of trash
and garbage left at the site. Gray noted that the city crew did an outstanding job
cleaning the area. The second goal was to designate a parking area to close the
area off and to prevent people from driving onto the bluff and to help revegetate
the area. The third goal was to put up a sign. Gray stated that Bunny Swan had
designed the sign. Examples of the sign were handed out. Gray added that the
Historical Board had prepared a grant to put up historical signs in Old Town and to
fund this sign. Gray noted that the city had received notification due to the
unresolved federal budget the grant application process has been suspended in the
state. Thus, the signage moneys that were applied for has been put on hold.
Gray stated that at the last meeting the group had talked about what the next step
might be in designating this as a historical spot. Gray noted that Mike, Sasha, and
Rita suggested that some of the elders come to this meeting tonight and give some
ideas of what they had envisioned for the area. Gray added that at the last meeting
the group had discussed revegetating the grounds, possibly planting some trees,
putting in some natural wood benches, possibly a little path or trail around the area,
and possibly fencing the up-river side of the property. Also discussed was
designating this site for the National Historic Register with the National Park
Service.
Gray commented that was the evolution of the process and tonight the group
would be brainstorming ideas of what people would like to have in that area and
what could be accomplished.
Gray opened the meeting to anyone who had any ideas to take the floor.
noted this was an informal meeting.
Gray
Mike Huhndorf showed the group a map which had a square which he perceived to
be the Village of Shkituk'. Huhndorf noted that it may possibly be in the wrong
place and may actually be in one direction or another. Huhndorf stated that they
wanted to get an idea of what the site would look like for the elders at a luncheon
they had had last week. Huhndorf stated they had came up with a configuration
for the square, but minor adjustments may need to be made according to the
location. Huhndorf stated the square represented the Village and the blue line
represents the bluff as it looks toward the Kenai River toward the Columbia Ward
Cannery. Huhndorf explained that with this representation in mind, he had
presented each elder at the luncheon with a blank sheet of paper with the bluff line
on it. Huhndorf stated that the decision of the elders had been to use wild flowers
to beautify the area. Huhndorf added that one of the main discussions at the last
meeting was how the path should be on the property, what should it be made of,
and where should it run. Huhndorf stated the elders had decided the path should
run along the perimeter around the square. At the entry, at a diagonal at one
corner, will be where the sign would sit. Huhndorf stated there may need to be
discussion as to how far back. There will be benches around the sign and the path
will continue around with clusters of wild flowers around the path and benches
along the path. Huhndorf noted that the number of benches was not decided but
he would approximate six to eight. Huhndorf asked if anyone had any questions.
Gray commented that when they had originally asked for the area to be set aside,
she had it placed the site on the flip side more towards the river bank. Gray added
that she didn't know if that would be a problem. Gray explained it would be like
flipping the blue rectangle over. Gray added that Boraas had stated at the last
meeting that the existing parking lot sat on the site. Boraas explained that the only
known map of Shkituk' is the 1 898 map of the cannery location, the cannery which
came to be known as Daubenspeck cannery. Boraas stated there is a map showing
where it was in relation to the cannery on top of the hill and back along the ridge.
Gray showed a copy of the 1898 map. Boraas stated he would need to refresh his
memory on it but just east of where it says church reservation. (Discussion by
group looking at map as to where the village was located.)
Historic District Board Meeting
Work Session Minutes
February 27, 1996 Page 2
Mayor Williams offered a comment on behalf of the entire plan. Williams stated he
had made an off-the-record request and it is obvious that it has not been taken care
of so he will make an on-the-record request at the next Council meeting. Williams
stated he has asked the administration, because of the many projects, changes, and
visions and views of what this property will look like some day in the future, to
prepare, or will direct the administration to prepare, a complete plot plan of the
whole area showing all of the boundaries. Williams explained that he wanted to do
this because the city is in serious discussion with the FAA about removing the
antenna farm and acquiring that property as well. There is also discussion with a
major developer about housing in the area, some that has already been approved
and designed in front of the senior housing. And, also some conceptual ideas
about what the Daubenspeck will be used for. Williams stated he would like to firm
up exactly where the Village Park will be and lay it into the plan along with the
church reservation and try to get an idea of what the whole area means to us, both
now and in the future. Williams stated he felt it was critical that this be done
because there are no good plans reflecting any future planning in the entire area.
Williams stated he would bring it up at the Council meeting on Wednesday night
and asked that it-be placed on his Mayor's Report to get administration to do this.
Williams asked La Shot if this could be done with CAD. La Shot stated it may have
already been started. Williams added that the discussions with the FAA will be
going on in earnest but the question is how much money will it cost to clean the
whole place up. Williams noted there will be a lot of time spent discovering what is
there and what needs to be looked at further. This summer a phase one survey of
the area will be done to determine just what is underground. Williams added there
may be a lot of excavation going on, clean up work, and things of that nature
around the whole area. Williams stated the city does know that there are a lot of
foreign materials buried around there. Williams noted that this brings up another
point. If the city is excavating, it will have to be done in a very planned manner if
they get into the area that could very well have artifacts.
Huhndorf commented that it was mentioned at a meeting that the labor to put the
sign up and to plant the flowers and do the work at Shkituk' can be provided by the
tribe. Williams said that was good and that the group needs to work closely on the
project and perhaps delay any park construction or work until the city defines the
cleanup plan and how it will be approached. Gray commented that last summer
when the city crews were cleaning up the area on the north side of the river they
found an underground tank. Williams commented that a lot of underground
"something or others" have been discovered, the remains of an old truck, a lot of
barrels, batteries, crushed barrels, an old antenna. Williams asked those who have
been here for years and years if they had knowledge of an underground vault on the
FAA property. Williams added that one office of the FAA will deny it and the other
will admit to it. Williams asked if anyone remembered there being constructed a
large underground vault on the property. Lindgren-Gagnon stated she didn't
Historic District Board Meeting
Work Session Minutes
February 27, 1996 Page 3
remember hearing of it. Gray stated Ken Jordan would know because he worked
for the FAA and he was here when they built that area. Williams stated the city
had gotten into a "hornet's nest" when the question was asked. One division went
all to pieces and the other division swore it didn't exist. Boraas asked what was
supposed to be in the vault? Williams stated that there is a hardened
communications site there which has a copper tomb around it that is supposed to
be used for emergency communications. Williams noted that it was always
believed that that was all there was there, just above ground in that one building.
For some reason, there is speculation that there may be more there; however, it
may just be an old tale. However, there have been very mixed reactions to the
question and that all needs to be reviewed. Williams added that there are some
very, very long-range plans being looked at by a lot of people right now for the
property. June Lindgren-Gagnon commented that one of the people who was there
with the CIA back in the 40's was Joe Ross and he would probably have a very
good idea of what was there as he is the kind of person who would know what
was going on. Lindgren-Gagnon suggested contacting Joe. Lindgren-Gagnon
clarified that this as Alexander Ross who lives on North Road on Berniece Lake.
Gray commented that she thought the entire Daubenspeck property was designated
to be recreational by the Daubenspecks. Williams stated no and that the city has
been in contact with the Daubenspecks over the last several months. Williams
added there was actually two gifts to the city by the Daubenspecks. One gift was
the royalty gas that is in the underground portion. The gas and the moneys derived
from it belong to the recreation fund. The property was a separate gift and the
property can be dealt with in the same manner that all city properties are dealt
with. The Mayor stated he thought that if the land is sold or leased the moneys
that are derived from the sale would be placed in the. land trust fund. This fund is
such that the capital cannot be spent, only the interest and earnings can be spent.
Councilman Bannock added that should one of the properties be sold, the royalties
will still be there. Regardless of what happens above surface, the sub-surface
mineral rights will continue to be producing revenue for Parks and Recreation.
Mayor Williams noted he has had discussions with Marathon with regard to the
royalties. Williams stated that Marathon has redefined the boundaries of the
reservoirs and by June or July of this year they should have what they consider to
be a scientific view of the volumes. They may be able to tell the city what the
total volume of gas owned by the city is or the city's share of the royalty would be.
Williams added the city may try to enter into an agreement to sell the royalty gas in
place in total to Marathon at a designated price. That money will be placed into
reserve accounts and used for years to come. Williams stated it makes more sense
for the city to get one big chunk of cash at one time, but it doesn't make as much
sense for Marathon.
Historic District Board Meeting
Work Session Minutes
February 27, 1996 Page 4
Gray asked Boraas what would be, to the best of his knowledge, the location of the
site. Boraas stated he would have to go out and using the old map and try to find
a point to use as a reference. Boraas added that just by looking at it, it looks like it
is along the ridge extending into the parking area. It may even come across what
was later designated as the Orthodox Cemetery. Boraas stated the trick is to find a
point on the older maps that match with something on the ground today. Williams
noted that the older map was hand drawn from physical observations and may not
maintain a lot of accuracy. Boraas stated that it is as close as what we have and
can give a general idea. Boraas added it is typical of Denaina' villages being they
were always up high on a bluff and close to water. Boraas commented that he
didn't know how necessary it is to find the exact location but just to be as accurate
as possible. Boraas stated that in his mind and from the historical standpoint what
is being done is to trying to recreate a location and then provide people with
information about what it was like.
Mayor Williams reiterated that everyone would work together on the plan.
Huhndorf asked Mayor Williams if he could estimate a time that the site would be
ready for the park. Mayor Williams responded that he had stated the project delay
based on the funding being delayed considerably. Williams stated that he felt that
a phase one assessment of the whole area would be done this summer. Williams
said the plan of the whole area will be easy to do and putting in what is there now
and what is proposed. That is one of the things that needs to be done. Williams
stated they need to establish as soon as possible where the park is going to be so it
can be included in the plan the staff will prepare. Then can move ahead as soon as
possible and it will be in May or so to wait for the snow to be gone. By then,
perhaps by May or June, the issue of the federal budget will be cleared up and the
city may know more about the grant moneys. Huhndorf stated that the tribe has
said they could supply the labor and could possibly due so by the end of July.
Williams said it is critical that we get the exact location laid out. That way while
the phase one assessment is being accomplished the area can be looked over
closely in the beginning and then decide if that will work out. Williams noted that if
a major anomaly is there that will need to be looked at and will present another
delay. Williams reiterated the need to get the layout, then the phase one
investigation, and then proceed from there. Williams added that the city has no
idea what the property looks like below the surface.
Gray asked that since the Daubenspeck property had been donated for public
purposes, what purposes other than parks and recreation could conceivable be put
on this tract. Williams stated the city is looking at housing, a major senior
condominium project. Williams stated there is a commercial zone on the property.
Gray stated that when she looks at the map that Huhndorf supplied the areas
designated as church resignation, parking area, that area is about the only bluff
property in the city that is left as a viewing site. Gray stated she would personally
Historic District Board Meeting
Work Session Minutes
February 27, 1996 Page 5
hate to see anything built on it because there are so few places that residents can
go to look at the river. Williams said that is one of the reasons that the project the
Historic Board is developing is very appropriate, so there is a preserved area.
Williams stated that the problem that the city faces is that all of the Daubenspeck
property running back to Frontage Road is some of the most valuable in the City of
Kenai and must be exploited on behalf of the people. Williams added that whatever
happens there will be definitely better than what has happened there in the
immediate past, that being the FAA antennae farm and all of that complex. Just
for the aesthetic value that all needs to be out of there. Williams stated that for
ten years he had said there is absolutely nothing aesthetically pleasing about the
FAA complex. Williams stated that when he had first discussed it with Senator
Stevens he had said the city should move it themselves. At this time Stevens is
very interested in helping the city move it and that is why the city is talking
seriously about this now.
Lindgren-Gagnon commented that she could remember how traumatic it was for
the people in town when a contractor came in with bulldozers and bulldozed the
cemetery over the hill. Some of the men came with a gunny sack full of bones.
They left the sack outside of the gate while they spoke with her dad and asked
what he thought they should do with the bones because they had picked them up
along the river. He told them to take them to the cemetery and rebury them.
Lindgren-Gagnon stated she was 1 2 years old at the time and she could remember
the sadness that was felt in the village. Lindgren-Gagnon stated she had always
felt that way about the area and has never been comfortable with knowing what
was there and what was there now. Lindgren-Gagnon stated when she heard about
the park it had made her very happy. Several years ago during a rural provider's
conference with hundreds of people coming in from all over to attend, they didn't
feel comfortable with people who were coming and were going to camp there. So,
they went there and read prayers and sprinkled holy water over acres of land before
they let the people come in and stay there. Lindgren-Gagnon reiterated that she
thinks the proposed park plan is terrific and she is glad it is being done.
Mayor Williams stated the city had delayed and then canceled plans to build a large
park in the area some time ago. Williams stated there were a couple reasons for
that. One, they didn't feel there were sufficient moneys for the type of design.
But, more than that, the idea of tying it up in perpetuity and not being able to claim
the land as the city's own once the city used federal money was another reason it
was stopped. Williams stated they would have had to use BOR (Bureau of Outdoor
Recreation) grant money. That money was held on for three years until the time
ran out and the city was forced to return it. Again, one of the reasons the city
didn't want to do it was that the city didn't have a complete idea of what the area
would look like for the next 50 to 100 years.
Historic District Board Meeting
Work Session Minutes
February 27, 1996 Page 6
Boraas stated that it is not just setting aside a chunk of land but history should be
about learning lessons and this is an important lesson of how the federal
government is operating. Boraas added that he is surprised that the proposed sign
doesn't contain information about what happened to the cemetery and the village.
Boraas added that he is not trying to make it a "downer" but to provide people with
thoughts about how we treat sites, how we treat important places, and the tyranny
that can happen when a powerful entity overwhelms a smaller entity. Boraas
stated he feels these are important lessons and if the story isn't told, the story
disappears. Boraas asked what the plan was.
Mayor Williams stated the staff will complete a surface plan to see a plot of who
owns what and where it is and what the proposals are for the area. Williams
stated the city has done some looking at the land using detectors and know that
there are a lot of materials in and around there that need to be taken care of.
Williams stated that he didn't know how much was outside the perimeter of the
FAA complex, how much may be in the park area, or in the area of the city-owned
Quonset huts and the area around there. Williams stated that is what he is
referring to as phase one portion of it and it will be done later this year. Finding out
exactly where all of these anomalies are that the city is looking at. Boraas asked if
there would be excavation at that point. Williams said no except possible borings
to see what the soil is like and take samples. La Shot stated there will be some
digging like that and possibly pulling the tank. Williams explained that the city
knows where there is one large tank and it may be removed. Generally during the
phase one, you try to locate everything and get an idea of how big the task is going
to be. Williams stated that the city's letter to the Senator responding to his
question of how much it would cost to clean the site, the city had stated they had
no idea. Zero to $500,000 dollars is the city's best estimate. Williams stated that
in the park area it could be that there is nothing there. Boraas stated that is stage
two and then where does it go. Williams stated that phase two would be the
excavation of known materials. Boraas commented, cleaning it up. Gray asked if
that could be accomplished this summer. Williams stated no; he wouldn't even
guess when it would proceed to phase two. Williams stated that is why it is
almost hopeful that phase one reveals nothing in the area of the park and then we
could be in good shape. Phase two could be the following year, 1 997, or beyond.
It will depend on what is found and how much it costs to remove it. Huhndorf
stated that he would guess that any plans for benches or flowers would not be a
reality this summer. Mayor Williams stated that it may be possible on a temporary
basis but until it is determined that the area is clean, it is almost mandatory that the
city take it upon itself to insure that piece of property is clean. Boraas asked if it
would be reasonable to do that on'a temporary basis with the sign. Williams stated
he felt it would be. Williams stated he wanted to back up to what he had said
earlier. There is a delay in funding, spring is around the corner, and the plan that
won't ~ake any time at all to show where the city is at can be done. The first thing
Historic District Board Meeting
Work Session Minutes
February 27, 1996 Page 7
that can be done when the phase one assessment in the spring is to look at that
area. If it comes up clean and everything else looks all right and everyone is in
agreement with the plan, the board may be able to go ahead later this summer and
fall. Williams stated it is not to say that phase cannot be done but we do know
that phase two will be a reality on quite a bit of that property; the city just doesn't
know where yet.
Gray stated that Booth had asked if there were any other funding sources for the
sign. Booth asked if there were any other grant sources that the board could apply
to. Williams stated that he didn't feel the letter about the grant meant a lot.
Williams said that the letter says that, "due to the unresolved federal budget that
impacts the Historic Preservation Fund Grants in Aid Program" she is suspending
the FY96 grant application process. Williams stated the federal budget will be
taken car.e of, they will solve that problem. Williams added that the thing going on
with Clinton and congress is nothing new and that the same thing happened with
Reagan and Bush and the government ran almost two years on a continuing budget
under Reagan. It was just that nothing was done about it. Williams stated it is just
that there is a lot of confusion and it being an election year affects it. Gray stated
the other concern is that the Board doesn't know if they are getting the grant, the
Board applied but receiving it is not a sure thing. Gray stated that she had thought
that if the sign could be even temporarily put up this summer that would a major
step. Afterwards, if it had to be moved, it could be done. But getting it made and
put up this summer would be something to shoot for. Mayor Williams asked how
much the sign was. Bannock responded $3,000 and Huhndorf stated it was
$2800 total. Gray stated that the grant would have paid half it the grant had been
received. Bannock said that he wouldn't say that you couldn't ask but that putting
it into the City of Kenai's budget and making it jump through the hoops is no
different than applying for a state grant but he doesn't know if that would happen.
Gray stated that the city hasn't shut down yet. Gray asked when the budget
requests are due. Bannock stated the budget closes day after tomorrow and
Department heads report March l't. Mayor Williams asked the Board to write a
letter to the City Clerk saying that the Mayor recommended that the board write a
letter requesting funding in the council's budget in the amount of $3,000. Williams
stated the council would review it on an independent basis from the rest of the city
budget and it may be included in the city's miscellaneous, miscellaneous account.
Bannock stated that short of the Department of Natural Resources and the City of
Kenai's budget, Ms. Booth makes a valid point. That being, is there any other place
to look. Is there any other organization that this is what they like to pay for.
Bannock asked if the group was missing something noting that he would hate to
pay for something out of the general fund that there is an organization that this is
the kind of stuff that they like to pay for. Williams said he wanted it put in the
budget since there were only two days to complete these items anyway and then
begin to look at some other entities that the money might come from. Meanwhile,
Historic District Board Meeting
Work Session Minutes
February 27, 1996 Page 8
Williams said to put it in since there are only two days until the budget must be
turned in. Then, look for other sources of funding that the money could come
from. Williams added that the council has been doing a lot of little projects around
the city the last couple years. Williams stated he wanted a sign on the bridge
telling about Ryan's Creek, the Old Patty Ryan story.
Frates commented that he had gotten a price on fencing. The fencing is the type of
fencing that is between Carrs and the Bernie Huss Trail. Frates stated that would
run approximately $1 3.1 5 per linear foot. That would be for a nine foot fence.
Mayor Williams stated that was an entirely different item.
Board member Bill Kluge joined the meeting.
Gray asked if there would be a problem if the city granted the money for the sign
that it be put up this summer. Then, if there was a problem revealed with phase
two that had to be removed that the sign could be taken down or moved for that.
Williams stated he would like to get the plan finished to figure out where the park is
going to be. Williams added that the group already has a lot of information for the
general area. If the city can figure out exactly where the park should be, the city
may be able to go in and look at the site. Williams stated that he feels that by the
end of summer if things look right, the plan could be done. Williams reminded the
._
group that the fiscal year doesn't start until July 1 so funds would not be available
until then if they were appropriated. Williams noted that gives the city until June to
get the layout and to see how things look at the site. Then, in July if it is
determined that the area is in good shape and there are no concerns, the work
could be done in July. Williams reminded the group that everything is contingent
upon there not being any concerns.
Gray concluded the meeting by summarizing the meeting. Gray stated the exact
village site would be located, a letter sent to council to request funding for the
sign, and possibly put the sign up this summer, even if only temporarily. Gray
stated she felt the site plan looked great.
ADJOURNMENT'
Work session adjourned at 7 p.m.
Respectfully Submitted'
ri
Administrative Assistant
Historic District Board Meeting
Work Session Minutes
February 27, 1996
Page 9