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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1997-05-19 Historic District Board SummaryHISTORIC DISTRICT BOARD May 19, 1997 - 5:30 p.m. ~ ~' ~' ~AGENDA~ ~ ~ Kenai Council Chambers Chair porothy Gray 1. ROLL CALL: 2. APPROVAL OF AGENDA: 3. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: April 21, 1997 4. PERSONS PRESENT SCHEDULED TO BE HEARD: 5. HISTORIC BOARD REVIEW: 6. NEW BUSINESS: 7. OLD BUSINESS: a. Sign Grant • Shk'ituk't Village sign quotes • Townsite Historic District Signs/Rotary Club ~ b. Conditional Use Permits in the TSH Zone I c. Preservation Plan 8. REPORTS: 9. INFORMATION: a. Info memo on "Loss of Quorum During a Meeting" b. Ft. Kenay/Mission St. Utility work and Street Lighting Plan Info. c. "Alaska Association for Historic Preservation" Newsletter (April 1997) d. "The Allian Review" (MarchlApril 1997) e. NAPC memo dated May 5, 1997 f. "Preservation Advocate News" (May 1997} g, Council Agendas (4/16 and 517/971 10. BOARD QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS: ~ 11. ADJOURNMENT: HISTORIC DISTRICT BOARD May 19, 1997 ~ ~ ~MINUTES~' ~ ~ 1. ROLL CALL: Members Present: Dorothy Gray, Ethel Clausen, Michael Huhndorf, Bill Kluge, Rebecca Godek, Gloria Wik Members Absent: Alan Boraas Others Present: Councilman Joe Moore, Administrative Assistant Marilyn Kebschull 2. APPROVAL OF AGENDA: KLUGE MOVED FOR APPROVAL OF AGENDA. WIK SECONDED THE MOTION. MOTION APPROVED BY UNANIMOUS CONSENT. 3. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: April 21, 1997 ~ Gray asked for additions or changes to the minutes. Godek noted a correction on Page 6, "Gray asked if.... Kluge noted the church only"---should read "Godek noted the church only... ". No other changes noted. GODEK MOVED TO APPROVE MINUTES. MOTION SECONDED BY CLAUSEN. APPROVED BY UNANIMOUS CONSENT. 4. PERSONS PRESENT SCHEDULED TO BE HEARD: 5. HISTORIC BOARD REVIEW: 6. NEW BUSINESS: 7. OLD BUSINESS: a. Sign Grant • Shk'ituk't Village sign quotes j Gray noted the Board needed to make a decision on the sign quotes. Kebschull updated the Board on the Pannier quote. Kebschull advised that the latest quote, based on asking for a reduced size, not knowing the size they may reduce it to, was for $2388 for black on white background and $2655 if black with one PMS Townsite Historic District Board Minutes Page 2 May 19,1997 color on white background. Godek noted that PMS was a premixed color. Kebschull noted they had supplied a quote for the backup prints at $5 per panel. HUHNDORF ARRIVED AT APPROXIMATELY 5:35 Gray noted the first decision the Board needs to make is if board wants to reduce size. Gray questioned if they reduced the size if that would make it a more standard size of sign. Kebschull advised that it would not necessarily make it more standard but it would reduce the cost and there had been concern about the large sign taking more wind abuse. Kebschull noted the original panels were planned for 34" by 96". Kebschull stated that Bunny Swan had informed her they could reduce the panels by one-fourth without losing anything from the artwork. That would make the sign 25,5" by 72". WIK MOVED TO REDUCE SIZE OF THE SIGN. MOTION SECONDED BY HUHNDORF. Gray clarified the motion to reduce the size to make it more cost effective and more wind resistant. Huhndorf, remembering a prior discussion, asked Kluge what he had suggested last year? Kluge clarified that the suggested reduction was to 25,5" by 72". Kluge asked if that was what the quote was for. Kebschull noted the quote was for 30" by 60" noting the quote was received before a reduction had been decided on. Kluge asked if 30" by 60" are in proper proportions. Kebschull stated that no it wasn't and that Pannier knew that and would provide a specific quote when we provided them with the exact size. Kluge asked how, square inches wise, 30" by 60" relates to 25.5" by 72". Kluge figured and then advised that it would be approximately the same size, square inch wise, noting it should be a comparable price. Kluge how this came in line with the budget. Kebschull drew attention to information provided in the packet. Kebschull explained the spreadsheets provided in the packet. Kluge questioned if they accept the Pannier quote at $2388 that they would have $300 left to mount the sign. Kebschull advised that fund is for contract services and the operating supplies is a separate account that would be used for the building materials. Kebschull suggested, noting that the Board doesn't know exactly what the quote would be, that the Board move to accept the Pannier quote and then she could obtain a specific quote. Kebschull noted she had estimated three backup copies, and the Board should decide how many copies they would want. Gray asked how much they would be and Kebschull advised $ 5 per sheet. Townsite Historic District Board Minutes Page 3 May 19,1997 Gray asked for further discussion on reducing the size of the sign, Gray asked if the Board was ready to take a vote on reducing the size of the sign. Godek asked for clarification on the difference in Pannier quotes. Kebschull advised that the first quote was $2970 for the full size drawings and the second quote was $ 2388. Kluge asked if they had noted how much time they would need. Kebschull advised they had. Kebschull noted the artwork would be sent to them and then they would send it back for acceptance. Kebschull advised that should be accomplished in 30 days. From that point, six weeks to two months to construct the signs. Kluge called for question on reducing the sign size. Gray clarified the motion on the floor is to reduce the Shk'ituk't Village Sign by one-fourth overall to make the dimensions 25.5" by 72" per panel. MOTION PASSED UNANIMOUS. Gray stated they need to decide if they want black and white or black and white and one color. Gray noted there is approximately $300 difference in the pricing. Kluge asked if there was an extra $300 to in the budget to cover that. Godek commented that she felt they were right back where they started. Kebschull advised that the grant allows them to go 10 percent over any account without getting a waiver from the grant. Kluge asked how it is paid for and Kebschull advised it is taken from another account. Kluge clarified Kebschull meant the materials account. Kebschull asked how much they had in the accounts. Kebschull explained the handout in packet with f und balances. Kebschull noted she had obtained quotes so that they would have some idea of costs. Kebschull advised one side of the handout is actual budget balances and the other side is an estimated balance if the Board selected the quotes tonight. Godek stated she felt they needed to go with black on white. Huhndorf stated, in thinking about the sign, he felt that black and white would work. Huhndorf asked if they would save a considerable amount by going with one color? Godek stated it is her understanding that they had originally had a$2900 quote, now it is approximately $2400. Godek stated they would be adding $300 if they add another color which place them back at $2700. Huhndorf asked what the extra money would be appropriated for and if it could be used for the other signage, fancier post, etc. Godek noted they are at $2700 for Townsite Historic District Board Page 4 Minutes May 19,1997 the sign, if they add a color, and then the money for the copies. Godek noted that would be to repair the sign if ever damaged. Huhndorf stated it would be plainer if it were black and white. Huhndorf commented that if they decide to go with color they would have to decide what part of it should be color and what color to use. Discussion on how color could be used. Kluge noted they could use color on the border. Gray suggested using color for writing. Kluge suggested not paying $300 for an additional color but not use black. Kluge suggested indigo blue instead of black. Kluge stated he didn't feel there would be additional fees. Kebschull requested they make a motion so that if it wasn't the same cost that they go with the black and white, Kebschull noted they didn't have time to wait until another meeting to make a final decision. Huhndorf asked if they only have a$300 budget it they have to spend the money. Kebschull explained that grants are awarded and the city matches the grant with a portion of the funds. Kebschull advised the city has only received $309.26 refunded. Kebschull noted that what will happen, that even though they were awarded so much money, if they don't need to spend it, is that the city won't be out that rnuch more money, Kebschull commented she felt the Board should be realistic and only spend what they need. Huhndorf clarified the city matches the money spent. Kebschull advi~ed the city's share is 60 percent adding that the in- kind services were counted in the city's 60 percent. Kebschull commented she felt that was one of the reasons council was willing to fund the grant because a lot of the city's share of the funds was being covered by things other than dollars. Kebschull suggested the Board be frugal. Kebschull noted that if the Board ran over in the materials account, they could use up to 10 percent of the other account if they did have $300 in the other account to use. Kebschull noted she wouldn't suggest trying to obtain a quote that zeroed out the budget. KLUGE MOVED TO APPROVE PANNIER QUOTE AND REQUEST THAT THE SIGN BE DONE IN INDIGO BLUE AND WHITE IF NO ADDITIONAL CHARGE. IF NOT, THEN BLACK AND WHITE. CLAUSEN SECONDED THE MOTION. Huhndorf commented he liked the compromise. Kebschull clarified that what would be normally be black would be indigo blue. Gray asked if there was a special tribal color that the Board may want to consider. Huhndorf noted that practical colors are kind of a Halloween orange and a light brown with a black raven, Kebschull noted the Board may want to review the artwork before voting. Kluge noted it is just softer than black adding he felt it would be more appealing. Townsite Historic District Board Page 5 Minutes May 19,1997 Gray noted the motion is to accept the quote but to see if they could print Indigo Blue instead of black and white for the same price. If not, the Board would accept black. MOTION APPROVED UNANIMOUSLY. Kebschull clarified that Kluge had not placed a dollar amount on the quote so if the Pannier quote came in higher, it would be acceptable. Board agreement. KLUGE MOVED TO PURCHASE THREE BACKUP COPIES OF THE PRINTS. GODEK SECONDED THE MOTION. Gray noted this is at a cost of approximately $45. MOTION APPROVED UNANIMOUSLY. Gray asked if there was any additional business on Shk'ituk't Village Sign, Kebschull advised that the sign would need framing. Huhndorf noted he had looked at that portion of the memo and noted that the Rotary was going to build the frame for the sign. Kluge commented that was not part of the Rotary project. Kluge stated he felt the Rotary had their hands full with the Townsite District signs. Huhndorf advised that he could take this back to the tribe and see if he could come up with something. Huhndorf noted they had been looking for a kids project but they might be booked up. Gray suggested someone like Herman Lindgren who is really good with wood working. Huhndorf noted that Ron Petterson is also very good but added he has been really good. Gray suggested they might want to have Mr, Sherman of Sherman Signs look at the plan and recommend a type of frame. Kluge noted that in his experience you need a backing, plywood, and trim around the perimeter. Kluge noted they had used aluminum in the past, Huhndorf commented that with aluminum they wouldn't have to worry about it weathering. Gray asked Huhndorf to look into this for the next meeting. Kebschull asked that they have a plan for pricing for the Board to review at the next meeting. Huhndorf asked what pricing was being referred to. Kebschull advised they would need to get estimates for the materials for purchase orders. Gray asked what if someone wanted to volunteer their time. Kebschull noted there was no money in the grant to pay for the construction adding that this was part of the in-kind service. Gray advised this would be placed on the agenda for the June meeting. ) Huhndorf asked what the timeline was for installation. Kebschull stated the signs must be installed no later than August 30, 1997. Huhndorf asked if there is a plan for the frame. Kebschull noted she didn't think there was ever an official plan for the frame, Kebschull advised she didn't think they should screw into the frame Townsite Historic District Board Page 6 Minutes May 19,1997 because the fiberglass was waterproof. Kluge advised that you need a good contact cement and the trim should be removable for replacing damaged signs. Huhndorf asked Kluge if he could estimate how long it would take to construct the sign. Kluge asked how many people would be constructing the sign. Huhndorf stated 2 workers. Kluge estimated 2-3 days. • Townsite Historic District SignslRotary Club Gray advised that Kebschull had obtained estimates from Malstons and Spenard Builders for the engraving and cedar posts. Kebschull advised she had obtained the quotes to give the Board an idea of the costs since time is running out. Kebschull asked Kluge if he had checked anymore on posts costs. Kluge asked what the quotes were for. Kebschull advised she had told Spenard what they were being used for and the size they needed. Kluge asked if it was for 16 posts and Kebschull advised she got a quote per post and multiplied it. Kebschull advised they are the all-weather treated lumber noting they were green. Kebschull noted she didn't know if the Board wanted green adding that they have brown posts but are not as well treated. Kluge questioned Malstons quote being $600. Kebschull advised the original quote from Malstons were for much smaller plaques. Kluge noted he had used 4" by 8" on the signs he had designed. Kebschull noted they had specified 6" by 10" on the design to OHA. Kebschull noted the quote at $12.50 for the 6" by 10". Kluge stated they won't need them that large, Kluge advised they could send a copy of what they had planned to OHA to get their blessing on the smaller plaques. Kebschull asked if Kluge had gotten a quote. Kluge shared sign samples he had designed noting they were half-size. Kluge noted he had numbered the signs according to the text list he had received. Kluge noted he had made one change because it wasn't working out is getting rid of Electric after Jahrig on the Jahrig Electric Building. Kluge noted that the building had been used for more than electrical adding he had never ran his business out of the building. Kluge stated he didn't think it looked right and he didn't have room to get it on the sign. Kluge stated he would prefer PharmacylJahrig Building, Kluge explained the sign samples. Kluge stated he obtained a quote for routing all of the signs with him providing the CAD files and delivering signs to Anchorage at $448. KLUGE MOVED TO TAKE OUT ELECTRIC ON JAHRIG ELECTRIC IT WOULD BE THE JAHRIG BUILDING. HUHNDORF SECONDED THE MOTION. Townsite Historic District Board Page 7 Minutes May 19,1997 Godek stated there may be a problem as they had originally wanted it to the Northwest Cannery Building. Godek noted she had brought that up a couple meetings back and the Board stated it had to be as listed in the survey. Godek asked if they would have a problem dropping electric from the name. Kluge stated he felt if presented to Ms. Vozar that she would be pleased to see the electric taken off. Godek stated her question is with the grant because the names had to match the survey. Kluge stated he thinks the survey is in error because they didn't interview anyone on the building. Kluge noted it was never the Jahrig Electric Building, it was a storage building. Kluge noted the description in the survey is inaccurate. Godek noted she is all for taking electric out of the name; however, noted she felt it should be brought up because they had discussed it at a prior meeting. KLUGE AMEND MOTION TO STATE REMOVE WITH BLESSINGS OF OHA AND POINT OUT WAS INCORRECT IN SURVEY. HUHNDORF SECONDED THE MOTION. Gray noted the motion is to remove electric from sign No. 9 with the approval of the Office of History and Archeology. Gray noted it would then read Pharmacy/Jahrig Building. PASSED UNANIMOUS. Gray noted she felt Oskolkof should have two f's. Gray stated she knew the Oskolkoffs have two f's and any Russian spelling have two f's or ov. Gray stated if they looked in the phone book she was pretty sure it would be two f's. Gray noted this house was owned by Carpenter. Gray suggested they double check the spelling before proceeding. Gray offered to proof the signs. Kebschull requested a copy of the signs to send to OHA. Gray stated she would return the proofed copies to Kluge and after he made changes, he would give Kebschull a copy. Kluge asked for status on the city medallions. Kebschull noted they were ordered. Kluge requested the city clerk check to see when they could expect to send them. Kluge suggested an option to brass plaques, noting they were tinny. Kluge stated he felt he could get a better price that would be tastef ul using a routed plastic. Kluge noted the plastic might fade with time. Kluge stated he thought it would be durable. Gray questioned if it would be as durable as the brass. Kluge stated no. Kluge offered to would speak to Mr. Malston and see if he could get a better price. ) Kebschull noted that Mr. Malston had asked them to let him know as soon as possible noting it would take him some time to engrave the plaques. Kebschull noted the price was less expensive than what was budgeted noting they had budgeted $900 for the plaques. Kluge noted it was a smaller size and Kebschull Townsite Historic District Board Page 8 _ __ ~ Minutes May 19,1997 added they were only obtaining half as many as originally estimated. Kluge asked Malston had the verbiage and Kebschull advised he had been told 200 letters. Kebschull stated she didn't think it was necessary for the Board to vote on those purchase orders but the estimate was given to them for information purposes. Kluge again asked what this meant to the budget and Kebschull again drew attention to the information provided in the packet. Kebschull again explained the spreadsheet information. Kluge noted there is $1600 left in the materials portion adding they stiil need to buy concrete, bolts, washers, wood plugs, etc. Kluge stated he would still like to get the routering paid out of grant. Kebschull noted they still had to purchase materials for the Shk'ituk't Village Sign frame. Kluge noted he is getting all of the signs routed by a fellow Rotarian who gave a break on the cost of the routering. Kluge stated this should come in about three times as much. Gray asked if any official motions needed to be made. Kluge stated he couldn't start them until he gets the city emblems. Gray stated they could still begin on the engraving and asked if they needed a motion to have Malstons perform the work. Kluge stated he would rather have the wood done first so they could take a piece of the metal and play with it. Kluge stated he would like to talk to Malston and see what standard size metal he has, get the signs routered, and then get the blanks and see if they fit. b, Conditional Use Permits in the TSH Zone Gray drew attention to City Attorney Graves response regarding CUP's in the TSH zone. Gray noted that he felt that it referred to building permits within the zone. Gray read the memo and explained how the Board could be advised of any CUP's by placement in the packet if the timing was correct or be a part of the public hearing mailing if not. Gray stated this would give the Board an opportunity to attend the public hearing. Gray noted she has a concern. Gray stated she has reviewed ordinance, 14.20.105 b(8- ,"The board will review all building permit applications, as well as all exterior architectural alterations and demolition's within the designated zone. Gray noted she reviewed this specifically because the Oskolkof/Dolchok cabin has had some work done on it, Gray noted she had contacted Jack La Shot and through Kebschull was advised he felt it was not necessary for TSH Board to review it. Gray stated that La Shot considered it a porch. Gray commented she felt it was very clear when it said "all exterior alterations." Kluge stated he didn't think it would come into play unless it required a building permit. Kluge stated he felt there was a limit on what you can do without a Townsite Historic District Board Page 9 Minutes May 19,1997 building permit adding that is what the city would have to address. Kluge added he didn't think the city would have any stroke unless they were applying for a building permit. Gray noted the wording says they review all building permits as well as all exterior architectural alternations. Kluge asked if all the residents of Old Town been advised they cannot do anything to their building without permission of the city. Moore advised that is a good point and this may be a flaw in the code. Huhndorf stated that in the National Historic Preservation Plan that owners can do whatever they need to do to their building. Huhndorf noted a building can be nominated to the National Historic Register but the owner can still do whatever they want to their building. Gray stated she would like to review it because when they wrote the ordinance it was based on the National Historic Preservation Plan. Gray stated she would like to put this on the agenda for next meeting. Gray noted her interpretation is that they would review any exterior changes of buildings. Huhndorf stated he felt that they had advisory capacities and try to persuade owners to keep the historic flavor. Gray stated that looking back to the origin that it was a major concern of people putting up modern buildings in the area, or adding on modern additions which would change the historical flavor of the area. Gray noted she will look it up. Kebschull commented it could be considered a taking noting that what Gray is saying is that owners could even be told they couldn't paint their house. Kebschull added the city gets involved when people come in for permits for which there is a criteria for. Kebschull stated it was her feeling that the couldn't go in and tell owners they couldn't paint their house, repair a porch, etc. Gray noted that in some places you can. Kluge stated it would depend on the zoning ordinance and restrictions adding he doesn't know of anything on the books. Gray stated in Georgetown they are limited to certain colors, building materials, height, etc. c. Preservation Plan Gray suggested postponing the Preservation Plan and consider doing this as a work session after the signage project. Gray stated this could be a goal this summer. Gray stated she feels the plan is 75 percent completed. 8. REPORTS: Huhndorf provided information on the walking tour handout. Huhndorf stated he has been in contact with several others on the walking tour. Huhndorf noted he had had the information reviewed by Alan Boraas for accuracy. Huhndorf stated that Boraas had advised him it was written at about the 11 t" or 12th grade level and he Townsite Historic District Board Minutes Page 10 May 19,1997 should bring it down and suggested to watch the "this" and "its as well as a few semantic errors. Huhndorf noted he needed to credit the authors. Huhndorf asked the Board to review the information and noted that he needed to get with Wik on the Petersen memorial cross at the Kenai Bible Church. Huhndorf stated he is trying to get this done by the end of the month and noted he has been coordinating with Kim Booth for materials, Huhndorf showed how he had planned the tour on a map from the Visitor's Center, Huhndorf noted he had placed the Parish House and Church on the tour but didn't put too much information noted he had suggested that individual inquire at the parish house. Gray suggested adding the chapel. Godek asked if the numbering matched map and Huhndorf advised yes. Godek asked if there will be confusion with the numbering on signs. Kluge stated the tour numbers should correspond with sign numbers regardless if they are in chronological order or not. Godek read the Pharmacy/Jahrig Electric Building text and noted it is not an electric contractor's building now but instead a restaurant. Kluge stated he felt they might want to include more information on the Jahrig family and how they used the building and then when the Vozars bought the building and their renovations in the tour text. Godek noted that Ms. Vozar has information on this building on her menus. Godek commented she felt Huhndorf had done a good job. Gray asked where Kluge had gotten his numbers and he advised it was the order he was given on the text. Kebschull advised there was no reason for the order the buildings were presented on the text pages. Kluge noted they needed to get the numbering clarified before they had the routering done. Gray stated she felt the walking tour information would encourage people to walk through. Huhndorf stated he would work on the Jahrig Building information. 9. INFORMATION: a. Info memo on "Loss of Quorum During a Meeting" b. Ft. KenaylMission St. Utility work and Street Lighting Plan Info. c. "Alaska Association for Historic Preservation" Newsletter (April 1997) d. "The Alliance Review" (MarchlApril 1997- e. NAPC memo dated May 5, 1997 f. "Preservation Advocate News" (May 1997) g. Council Agendas 14/16 and 517197} Townsite Historic District Board Page 11 Minutes May 19,1997 Gray drew attention to the information provided in the packet. 10. BOARD QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS: Gray noted the next meeting will be held on June 16t". Gray noted they will be finishing up details on the signs. Gray asked if it would be helpful if she faxed everyone the day before the meeting as a reminder then she would know if they will be in attendance. Gray noted then she would know if they would have a quorum and people wouldn't have to come if they knew they didn't have a quorum. Godek advised for the Visitor Center meetings they are faxed a note and asked to respond yes or no if they will be attending, Gray stated she could do that. Godek noted her correct work number is 283-7171 and work fax 283-5992. Moore noted that the problem with faxing members to know if there is a quorum is that under the Public Meetings Act you have to have notice before a meeting can be canceled. Gray stated she knew that according to the city ordinance that Kebschull will still have to show up. Kebschull noted that the only thing that will be accomplished by this is that the Board won't have to show up but staff will still have to come to the meeting, Gray stated she hoped that the fax would be a reminder of the meeting. Gray reminded everyone that there is a vacancy on the seat and encouraged everyone to try to find another person within the city to fill the seat. 11. ADJOURNMENT: Meeting adjourned at approximately 6:42 p.m. Respectfully Submitted: ,, ; .. ~ Marilyn Kebschull Administrative Assistant