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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1983-11-09 P&Z MinutesKENAI PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION Regular Meeting, November 9, 1983 ~ Kenai City Hall Lee Lewis, Chairman AGENDA 1. ROLL CALL 2. AGENDA APPROVAL 3. PERSONS PRESENT SCHEDULED TO BE HEARD ~~~ a. Kenai Advisory Library Commission - Library Expansion Plans - Vice Chairman Troy Castimore 4. PUBLIC HEARINGS a. Resolution PZ83-70: Conditional Use Permit - Therapeutic Nursery School - Lot 38-A/Dolchok S/D - Royce & Ouida Dunlap ~ b. Resolution PZ83-71: Rezone Portion of Lot 2, Block 1 Spur S/D No. 1 - General Commercial (CG) to Urban Residential (RU) c. Resolution PZ83-72: Amendment to Land Use Plan - Portion Lot 2, Block 1, Spur S/D No. 1 - General Business to High Density Residential 5. APPROVAL OF MINUTES of October 26, 1983 6. OLD BUSINESS a. Request to Purchase and Rezone City-owned Lands - Portion of Government Lot 11, Section 31, T6N, R11W, S.M. - Jack Sipperly b. Discussion: Capital Improvments Program/1984-1985 1 ~1, i ~:_~ ~`..L-~ P~{'}'1 '~ `.~ .. ~ ; ':_ awl 7. NEW BUSINESS a. Section 36 Engineering Proposals 8. PLANNING a. Discussion: Planned Unit Residential Development Draft Ordinance 9. REPORT a. City Council Report b. Borough Planning Report c. City Administration Report 10. PERSONS PRESENT NOT SCHEDULED TO BE HEARD 11. COMMISSION COMMENTS & QUESTIONS 12. ADJOURNMENT 2 KENAI PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION Regular Meeting, November 9, 1983 Kenai City Hall Lee Lewis, Chairman 1. Present: Lewis, Bryson, Osborne, Smalley, Zubeck Absent: Oleson, excused 2. AGENDA APPROVAL Chairman Lewis asked that Mayor Wagoner be added as item 3-a; move 8-a to 6-c at the request of the land manager. MOTION: Commissioner Osborne moved approval of the changed agenda, seconded by Commissioner Smalley There were no objections 3. PERSONS PRESENT SCHEDULED TO BE HEARD a. Mayor Wagoner Mayor Wagoner informed the Commission that, if at any time the Commission wished the Mayor to attend a meeting, he is available, just let him know. The Mayor next stated that he is in favor of taking the zoning powers back from the Borough and making this Commission an authority body. The. second item to open for consideration is the number of businesses in residential districts. The City has filed suit against some of the businesses but there are many more that are out there. Mayor Wagoner pointed out that some businesses have been granted CUP's or exceptions or even spot zoning in some cases. Many of these businesses have several employees and are have a large operation. Mayor Wagoner suggested that this body consider a 30-day amnesty period and any business not in a commercial district come forward. There should be no ability to expand buildings or business, no improvements, and should the property be sold, the business must revert back to residential use. Jeff and the Commission can work together to treat these people fairly. Then after the problems are identified, any one who violates the City code can be enforced. Considering sales taxes and tax assess-ments, Kenai cannot afford to allow these businesses to continue and create an adverse affect on the City. The Commission & Mayor Wagoner discussed this subject and the return of zoning powers to the City farther. The land manager will initiate these two subjects for the Commission at the next meeting. r-6 KENAI PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION Regular Meeting, November 9, 1983 Kenai City Hall Lee Lewis, Chairman 1. Present: Lewis, Bryson, Osborne, Smalley, Zubeck Absent: Oleson, excused 2. AGENDA APPROVAL Chairman Lewis asked that Mayor Wagoner be added as item 3-a; move 8-a to 6-c at the request of the land manager. MOTION: Commissioner Osborne moved approval of the changed agenda, seconded by Commissioner Smalley There were no objections 3. PERSONS PRESENT SCHEDULED TO BE HEARD a. Mayor Wagoner Mayor Wagoner informed the Commission that, if at any time the Commission wished the Mayor to attend a meeting, he is available, just let him know. The Mayor next stated that he is in favor of taking the zoning powers back from the Borough and making this Commission an authority body. The second item to open for consideration is the number of businesses in residential districts. The City has filed suit against some of the businesses but there are many more that are out there. Mayor Wagoner pointed out that some businesses have been granted CUP's or exceptions or even spot zoning in some cases. Many of these businesses have several employees and are have a large operation. Mayor Wagoner suggested that this body consider a 30-day amnesty period and any business not in a commercial district come forward. There should be no ability to expand buildings or business, no improvements, and should the property be sold, the business must revert back to residential use. Jeff and the Commission can work together to treat. these people fairly. Then after the problems are identified, any one who violates the City code can be enforced. Considering sales taxes and tax assess-ments, Kenai cannot afford to allow these businesses to continue and create an adverse affect on the City. The Commission & Mayor Wagoner discussed this subject and the return of zoning powers to the City farther. The land manager will initiate these two subjects for the Commission at the next meeting. KENAI PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION ~ Regular Meeting, November 9, 1983 Page 2 b. Kenai Advisory Library Commission - Library Expansion Plans - Vice Chairwoman Troy Castimore Vice Chairwoman Castimore made a presentation on behalf of the Commission. This is a request for regional capital improvement funds. It has been recommended by the Commission that the library expansion be 10,400 sq. ft. total with 5,200 sq. ft. for a split level with both levels being completed as opposed to one level be left unfinished as suggested by a Kenai city councilman. It was pointed out that the estimates on cost vary and cannot be accurate until determined by an architect. The range right now is between $600,000 and 1.2 million. Commissioner Zubeck asked if any outside businesses had been petitioned for funds, answer was no. Commissioner Zubeck pointed out that as an advisory commission they could request to petition places like Tesoro or one of the big oil companies. Commissioner Zubeck then asked how many of the cardholders lived outside the city limits, Castimore did not have that information available. Commissioner Zubeck felt that whether or not there was a significant number, this may be a viable alternative to relying on state funds and since those persons do use the library they should be more than willing to contribute. Chairman Lewis thanked those members of the Library Commission who spoke and noted on the informative presentation and brochure. 4. PUBLIC HEARINGS a. Resolution PZ83-70: Conditional Use Permit - Therapeutic Nursery School - Lot 38-A/ Dolchok S/D - Royce & gsida Dunlap Royce Dunlap came forward to speak for his petition and explained that they are currently leasing the house. Chairman Lewis asked Mr. Dunlap to explain a therapeutic nursery, Mr. Dunlap explained that it is in essence a center for disturbed children and that Mrs. Dunlap had attended the Cedars of Sinai school to become educated in this field. Councilman Wise asked if the Dunlaps were licensed by the State of Alaska, answer yes. The land manager mentioned that a letter supporting the petition had been recieved by Mrs. Jettie Petersen. The question was raised of dedicated access, since this is j private property belonging to the Russian Church would any problem arise at a distant time where the access may no longer be granted. The city does maintain this access, KENAI PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION Regular Meeting, November 9, 1983 Page 3 however there is nothing written. The Dunlaps stated that they may want to expand in the future as the demand is greater than they can handle right now. Mr. Labahn stated that at that point they would need to come back before the Commission. Commissioner Bryson asked if they were already in operation, the Dunlaps stated that they were. At this point Father Targonsky arrived and was asked if he had any objections as he is the priest at the Russian Church, the owner of the property, Father Targonsky stated that he had no objections. MOTION: Commissioner Smalley moved to approve PZ83-70, petition for a therapeutic nursery school on the described property, to limit the school to 12 students and if the number goes beyond that, the petition is to return to this body for additional consideration and further to incorporate the staff comments (Jeff's memo), seconded by Commissioner Osborne. VOTE: Motion passed unanimously b. Resolution PZ83-71: Rezone Portion of Lot 2, Block 1, Spur S/D No. 1 - General Commercial (CG) to Urban Residential (RU) c. Resolution PZ83-72: Amendment to Land Use Plan - Portion Lot 2, Block 1, Spur S/D No. 1 - General Business to High Density Residential _ NOTE: THESE TWO RESOLUTIONS WILL BE CONSIDERED TOGETHER This is the subdivision that is being leased to Edwin Lowry and is in the process of being developed. The request for rezoning was made by this body in lieu of the proposed development. This is still a preliminary plat and is in the process of being finaled. Chairman Lewis stated that about a month ago, there were excavation problems and Mr. Lowry was possibly in violation of his lease agreement, Mr. Labahn stated that to date the roads that have been built have not been accepted by the city but it is the intent of the lessee to bring these roads up to standard. The public works department has stated that the water & sewer is close to completion. There are approximately 8 foundations laid on lots in this portion of the subdivision. Chairman Lewis asked if the buffer strip had been violated, answer no. KENAI PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION } Regular Meeting, November 9, 1983 Page 4 Councilman Wise stated that the access onto Walker is still in dispute and with the pending sale of Daubenspeck, this needs to be considered. MOTION: Commissioner Bryson moved to approve PZ83-72, Amendment to the Land Use Plan, seconded by Commissioner Smalley. VOTE: Motion passed unanimously. MOTION: Commissioner Smalley moved to approve PZ83-71, Rezoning application, seconded by Commissioner Osborne. VOTE: Motion passed unanimously 5. APPROVAL OF MINUTES of October 26, 1983 NOTE: Commission recessed for 7 minutes Minutes were approved with no corrections or additions 6. OLD BUSINESS a. Request to Purchase and Rezone City-owned Lands - Portion of Government Lot 11, Section 31, T6N, R11W S.M. Jeff Labahn noted that this item was tabled at the last meeting pending input from the Parks & Recreation Commission. MOTION: Commissioner Smalley moved to take this item from the table, seconded by Commissioner Bryson. There were no objections. Commissioner Bryson indicated a number of concerns. One, this parcel has never been available to the public and the individual that is applying for the parcel would presumably receive some preference rightsas the present sale ordinance is established. Two, the retaining or disposal to tohers will not pose a hardship to the applicant. Three, this parcel has public access from two other directions, it could be developed by anyone else without prejudicing this adjacent lot that he owns. One access point is along an entire side that prition being above tyhe bluff and the KENAI PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION Regular Meeting, November 9, 1983 Page 5 other at a point. I don't feel the ordinance was intended for this purpose,it seems very shortsighted to dispose of areas that were requested for recreation and also adjacent to a greenbelt to be disposed of at this early stage of the city's development. We have these fantastic estimates of population gain but but yet propose that we dispose of what presumably would be parklands if it were dedicated. Jeff Labahn, Councilman Wise, and the Commission discussed the ordinance pertaining to land disposal. Mrs. Linda Swarner, speaker from the audience voiced objection to the sale. Commissioner Smalley stated that at this point in time this action would not be in the best interest of the City, it appears like not spot zoning but spot selling with the benefit of the public not being looked at. MOTION: Commissioner Smalley moved that no action be taken on this piece of property or any similar peice of property on that particular drainage area until proper studies can be developed to determine the drainage situation, seconded by Commissioner Osborne. VOTE: Motion passed by unanimous roll call vote Jeff Labahn asked if it was the intent of the Commission to preserve this area as a drainage corridor, Commissioner Bryson stated that it should be reserved as parklands. It was decided that at the next meeting Mr. Labahn would return with a mosaic of the area. b. Discussion: Capital Improvements Program 1984/1985 The task still before the Commission is to deal with the whole scope of capital improvements, to blend regional with local for an overall list. The Commission discussed the topic at length and drew up a list to be presented to the City Council. c. Planned Unit Residential Development Draft Ordinance A public hearing had been requested for this item and was set for December 14, 1983 with the Homebuilders Association to be involved. KENAI PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION Regular Meeting, November 9, 1983 Page 6 7. NEW BUSINESS a. Section 36 Engineering Proposals A memo was in the packet for the Commissioners regarding firms that were left out of consideration for the engineering proposals for Section 36. No action necessary at this time, however this will be a discussion item at the joint work session with the Council on November 16th. 8. PLANNING Taken care of under 6-c 9. REPORTS a. City Council Report Councilman Wise reported that there had been no Council meeting to report on. ~ b. Borough Planning Report Commissioner Bryson reported that there was no meeting. c. City Administration Report Mr. Labahn had no items to report 10. PERSONS PRESENT NOT SCHEDULED TO BE HEARD None 11. COMMISSION COMMENTS & QUESTIONS 12. ADJOURNMENT There being no further business, the meeting was adjourned. The next regular meeting of the Commission will be Wednesday, November 23, 1983 at 7:00 pm in the Council Chambers. Janet Loper, Secretary Verbatim -Mayor Wagoner ~ P&Z 11/9/83 Mayor - I would like to ask that if any time you would want me specifically to be at a meeting, for any item of business that you want to discuss, please just notify me and I will try to make it. I would like to address -two items, as I think most of you know, I am and always have been in favor of going to the borough and taking over the zoning powers from the borough and making the city planning & zoning commission, advisory planning & zoning commission into an authoritary body dealing in the zoning powers in this city. I do not feel that the borough should control these type of powers. I think it should be vested in the city. I don't care what the title, what title 29 says, thats immaterial. The borough mayor and the borough assembly, have in the past, .and they are willing to consider giving us these powers. As long as they're willing to give them to us I think we should take them. Cut and run. As far as them taking. them back, once you have possession of something like that, its going to take alot of coersion on they're part, I believe to take them back, and its going to be not the most politically astute thing for them to try to do even tho there is a change in the borough mayor, .the occupant of the borough mayor office. I don't think anybody wants to take back the zoning powers from the cities once they're given. They've got some falacy in somebody's mind. I can't imagine somebody wanting to do that. Secondly, the thing that has come up time and again and I`ve seen planning & zoning commissions meetings that I've attended, but I've also, I was on the campagin junket around town, I have run into several places that you arn't even aware of probably doing business in this town that are running businesses out of areas that are, for all practical purposes, they're non commercial areas. They're residential in nature. They're rural residential, urban residential, whatever the zoning is, they're being run today. The city has filed court action against some of these people, some of them they don't know about. All I'm asking is that the planning & zoning commission to take a look at treating everybody the same and I think one of the only ways we can do that is have a 0 starting point. There are already people who have been allowed variances, what's the other term Jeff, conditional use, exceptions, and everything. They are, for all practical purposes, operating businesses due to the grace of the city advisory planning & zoning commission or the borough in areas that at one time or the other were zoned other than commercial. And this brings about spot zoning, which we don't like to get into. What I'd like to see this body. consider over the next month or so, at least look at the possibility of giving a 30-day amnesty period for anybody who is doing business in a non-commercially zoned area to come forward to the city to be listed on a city list to be considered. to be allowed grandfather rights to carry on they're business operation, be allowed to ability to expand that business in that operation in that location both facilty and/or operation and employees or anything and at the time that business is either sold or they go out of business, that property must revert to, if its rural residential, then it must revert to and no longer can be used for commercial purposes. I think this is one of the only ways and I don't know of any other, maybe Verbatim - Mayor Wagoner Page 2 i Jeff and you as a collective group can come up with a way to treat these people fairly. I personally feel, this. is my personal opinion that that is the only way to treat everybody fair in this situation. .And then after that period is up, anybody who goes into business in one of these areas, as a non-commercial-user group, the city must enforce its ordinances. Cause that's the only way your going to put a stop to it. And its going to have to be stopped over a period of years. And we're growing now, we've got a good growth rate and we're growing to the point where we're not going to be able to afford to continue to deal with these things on a haphazard basis or one on one basis as they come up from year to year. In essence what I wanted to say. Lewis - how would you, on your second point, how would you notify, how would you propose that the city notify ah, these Wagoner - that's a good question because I've thought of that. And. the only thing I can think of is make a public appeal. over both purchased time on the railroad, (laugh) I've got railroad on my mind, the state's going to buy that thing. Over the radio, purchase time in the newspapers, and just get it circulated as much as you can and once you've made that effort, I don't think they can aske that you do anything further than that.. I've thought about that, I don't know that there's anyway that you can reach all of those people. Lewis- I was just wondering in my mind whether you would meet alot of resistance from these people saying the city has no right to, you know, I side with what you say, I agree with you 100% on it, but I just trying to Wagoner - I think they ought to realize that we do have the right. That we're trying to give them the benefit of the doubt, but we do have the right to enforce those ordinances Lewis - yes Wagoner - and if it comes down to the fact that they want to question, we have the right to put them out of business tomorrow. Lewis - right Wagoner - but I don't think that's what we want to do. Now, I have no facts or figures, I've talked verbally to about six people, but I can tell you five or six of these businesses are operating this way, of which I think 3 or 4 the city has taken .action against or preparing to. And of those I think there's probably a total of probably 10 to 12,000 sales tax paid by those businesses and they're very small businesses a year and as all I'm afraid of on a second level of this thing is we're putting number one, people out of business that right now are both gainfully employed and they have additional employees and secondly we're having an adverse affect on some of the income that's paid into the city of Kenai on a yearly basis through Verbatim - Wagoner Page 3 sales tax and business tax,. not business tax anymore but property taxes. But more than that, L think this body is going to be very busy in the next couple.. of years, I don't know whether your going to want. to deal with each one of these on an item by item basis because I do feel very strongly also that if the city starts enforcing they're zoning ordinance, them mister I'm gong to see that they're enforced to the hilt for everybody and everybody Lewis - yes, uniformly. Wagoner - right, and that's really going to cause a ruckus. Cause there's clot of it that's Smalley - it seems to me the city attorney spoke to us on that matter about a year or two ago and he said uniform enforcement right straight down the line. Treat everybody the same way. Wagoner - that was Mr. Delehay. Lewis - I think it was Smalley - was it Delehay? I thought we already had the switch there. Wagoner - no Smalley - a year ago, a year and a half ago? I was thinking it was Mr. Rogers who spoke to us. .Lewis - I'm not sure. Wagoner - but your uniform enforcement, if your going to have uniform enforcement there are clot of businesses right now that are operating illegally that shouldn be operating. I mean, you know. And some of them are major businesses. I, you know, I can guarentee you that. But I just think. that we, as a group, owe it to ourselves and to the community to look at it in a larger perspective. You can take a callous outlook, we got it, we're going to enforce it, that doesn't make it right or wrong, that's why you have your variances, conditional uses, and everything else, I don't know, but its something that Ijust want to address you as a body with and leave it up to you, you're the ones that are going to handle it in the future. Anyway I`d like you to consider it. Lewis - very good Wagoner - otherwise, I'll tell. you that as Mayor if it does. get enforced for a relatively few its going to have to be enforced for everybody and I'm going to see to that too. That's thats not a threat, I feel that`s the way we ought to treat everybody Lewis - sure. You have to treat everyone the same. Wagoner - sure. That's no different. I think that's where it came from. ~~~ Partial Verbatim - Purchase of Government Lot 11 Jeff Labahn - This item was before the commission at their last meeting and the recommendation at that time was to table ah, at such time until Parks & Recreation Commission had an opportunity to review it and per the minutes in the packet they have made a recommendation. Bryson - I would like to make a few statements on this. One, this area has never been listed as available to the public. Ah, two, Lewis - before we say anything we have to take this off the table. The Commission voted and approved a motion to remove from the table Bryson - I've got a number of concerns, one, this parcel has never been available to the public and ah, the individual that ah, is applying for the parcel would presumably receive some preference rights ah, as the present sale ordinance is established. Two, the retaining or disposal to others will not pose a hardship to the applicant. Three, ah, this parcel has public access from two directions, it could be developed by anyone else without prejudicing this adjacent lot that he's that he owns. secretary - could you slow down a bit, did you say points of access Bryson - apparently it has two other public access points, one along an entire side that ah, that portion being above the bluff and the other at a point. Ah, I don`t feel the ordinance was intended for this purpose. I don't know if I, I'm not familiar with the ordinance. Ah, it seems veryshort- sighted to dispose of ah, areas that were required for recreation or under. a recreation request and also ajacent to a greenbelt to be disposed of at this early stage of the city's development. You know, ah, we have these fantastic estimates of population gain but yet propose that we dispose of park property adjacent to parklands or what presumably would be park land if it were dedicated. For these reasons I ah, I feel this thing should ah, not be recommended for approval. inaudible comments Bryson - most of all I feel that ah, this is ah, ah, bad incident in that parcels that are not available to the public can be petitioned and that individual receive pref preference rights on a sale which would be to me ah, he could put in ah, ah, the ah, appraised value, someone else bids a what he feels is market value and this indivdual presumably has the right to meet the high bid and and acquire the land without taking the risk of ah accepting hind sight. Lewis - I see. The point your trying to make is nobody else is been given an opportunity to bid on this property is that right. Bryson - well, to me it would is everyone else has to bid on a ah, ah fair market value when ah he has the option of not bidding on it, ah, and just Verbatim - P&Z Meeting of 11/9/83 Page 2 let it go by. Again, I, I, think this is very casual way to ah, to advance land for sale by the city. Smalley - I think we have an existing avenue to make lands available and I think we're circumventing those avenues by this method. Bryson - Jeff, you, have you prepared a list of lands are are available for public purchase, or lease Jeff - yes, council has confirmed the list of properties that are available. Ah, the statement that was made that this, this is not among them is correct. And ah, one of the reasons its before this body and has been before parks & recreation is to I think at this point in time establish whether or not the city wants to ah, be in a posture of making this property or a portionof this property available for disposal and its also correct that 'the city couldn't dispose of it until the council had authorized this particular parcel of land for disposal, so um, again, maybe I didn't make myself clear. at the last. meeting but the intent is not to circumvent the process but ah, to work it from, from the ground up to allow the commissions to review it and ah, if the commissions dont feel that this is appropriate piece of property to dispose of um, this is the form at this point. Ah, inaudible comments Jeff - I guess the preference right that Phil is alluding to is .maybe something again that I didn't make clear at the last meeting, ah, under the code there may and I would stress may be a, an opportunity for the adjacent property owner to ah, exercise some type of of preference right however that will have to be determined by judgement at the council. He may or may not meet that criteria I think .its somewhat questionable. So I I hope that's not distorting the you know the evaluation of the overall request and that is essentially whether or not this peice of property that's being requested is appropriate for dispoal I think thats the main question. The other things are mechanical, ah, the rezoning, the replatting, ah, reclassification by council, but I think what this body needs to really be looking at is this a peice of city property that ah, is appropraite for disposal. Osborne - so all we have to do is act on his request unknown - right now Osborne - to satisfy this Jeff - at this point what needs to be done is some type of a recommendation ah, from the commission either, either, you know in the negative or the affirmative stating that you know that we agree that this land is suitable for disposal and proceed with again, the rezoning, replatting, ah and other things or to say ah, you know, we recommend against making this peice of Verbatim - P&Z Meeting of 11/9/83 Page 3 property available for disposal and to list the reasons Lewis - ewe-yew-sa~~ag-~~ea-~ha~-eke-~e~ea~eg-~s well in other words are you saying .then that the rezoning is would be handled as a separate matter Jeff - it it really would, it really, would, I I guess I highlighted the rezoning because that's one of the things that would have to be initiated by this body if the disposal of the property was going to go anywhere at all. Lewis - the way its presented its, its part, I mean, it has., it has to be rezoned. Jeff - that's right before disposal Lewis -for this man's purposes Jeff - or or for anyone else, I I can't imagine that if we wanted to make it available for disposal that anyone would be particularly interested in picking up a peice of, you know, conservation property. That the intent for the disposal would be to allow someone to develop it whether its the adjacent property owner or someone else. Bryson -for the benefit of the public, ah, ah, I wonder if you could describe where the property is. The Commission discussed the location Linda Swarner - I object. I mean I'm looking at dirt, I dont want to look at houses. laughter Wise - this is a difficult situation. The has some very difficult proceedures and the situation we're in is the city owns a gully for instance and it has not gone through with what I think is appropriate action to dedicate that gully and the adjacent lands as a ah, dedicated for public use as a conservation zone. Its been zoned to conservation. Ah, far cry distance. The city has a the way the land ordinate reads is that technically no land is available for sale unless the city declares it available for sale. Smalley - I'm going to make an attempt at a motion here. At this point in time I do not believe that passin this on as a suggestion to do this would be in the best interest of the city. To me it very much appears like not spot zoning. but spot selling. With the benefit of the public not being looked at. And as far as the general public., they're not aware of it and I don't think that's in the best interest of the city. Ah, again looking:.gat the problems possibly with drainage, a number of other things I would move to not recommend this sale at this time. Page 4 Commission discussed verbage of motion ~avely~u got that madam secretary. secretary - no Smalley - I would move that no action be taken on .this peice of property or any similar piece of property on that particular drainage area, ah until proper studies can be determined ah, can be developed to determin the drainage situation and so on, Osborne - second Smalley - but I also. I think also I would like to see this body reflect the fact that we don't, I don't think that this is appropraite (inaudible) again primarily for the reasons that PHil brought up and I think Councilman Wise to a degree supported PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION Ro 11 ~~, ~~, ~ ,~~~ ~ Call `~ ~~ ~- %////// Chairman Lee Lewis ~ ~' ~ -Phil Bryson ~ ~ \ hr' Bob Oleson Ozzie Osborne ~ ~ ~ I Hal Smalley ~~ Bill Zubek ~ - ~ `~