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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1988-07-13 P&Z Minutes~~ KENAI PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION July 13, 1987 - 7:00 P.M. Kenai City Hall Hal Smalley, Chairman AGENDA 1. ROLL CALL 2. APPROVAL OF AGENDA 3. PERSONS PRESENT SCHEDULED TO BE HEARD 4. PUBLIC HEARINGS 5. APPROVAL OF MINUTES of June 29, 1988 6. OLD BUSINESS 7. NEW BUSINESS a. Amend Conditional Use Permit for Extraction/Reclamation: Foster Construction b. Lease Application: Tract B, Gusty S/D #6 - James H. Doyle c. Tease Application: Tract C, Gusty S/D #6 - James H. Doyle (both leases for parking of trailer vans) d. Leased Lands/Approval of Building: Lots 5 & 6, Block 4, CIIAP Haliburton e. Leased Lands/Approval of Building: Inlet Salmon, Inc. 8. PLANNING 9. REPORTS a. City Council b. Borough Planning c. City Administration 10. PERSONS PRESENT NOT SCHEDULED TO BE HEARD 11. INFORMATION ITEMS a. Council Agenda b. Borough Agenda c. APA Newsletter d. Article on Real Estate (source unknown) 12. COMMISSION COMMENTS & QUESTIONS 13. ADJOURNMENT KENAI PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION July 13, 1987 - 7:00 P.M. Kenai City Hall Hal Smalley, Chairman The first part of the minutes pertaining to the amendment for Foster Construction are verbatim. 1. ROLL CALL Present: Smalley, Bryson, Church, Nault, O'Reilly Absent: Brown (excused) 2. APPROVAL OF AGENDA Agenda approved as submitted 3. PERSONS PRESENT SCHEDULED TO BE HEARD None 4. PUBLIC HEARINGS None i 5. APPROVAL OF MINUTES of June 29, 19$8 Minutes approved as submitted 6. OLD BUSINESS None 7. NEW BUSINESS a. Amend Conditional Use Permit for Extraction/Reclamation: Foster Construction Chairman Smalley introduced this item. Planning Specialist Loper: This issue has been reviewed by the Attorney's office. Referenced Section 14.20.158 (b), "Amendment or Transfer: A permit holder may amend his site plan and statements by filing an application for amendment in writing with the administrative official. The Commission shall approve the application for amendment if the original application would have been approved had it contained the provisions of the application for amendment." Commissioner Bryson: To break this down into different areas of impact; the original conditional use application was for gravel extraction, the reclamation of the area into a residential development was a conforming permitted use so I feel this wouldn't be an appropriate application of this paragraph. In lieu of proceeding with a permitted use in that zone, they're proposing a use that is not KENAI PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION July 13, 1988 Page 2 1 permitted without a conditional use permit. The primary medium term use previously was gravel pit, the ultimate use was residential housing which is permitted. Now the same medium term use is gravel extraction, the long term use is another conditional use requirement, the RV parks. The impact of this is I feel that it needs to go back to a formal public hearing so that the public can be addressed, ask for their opinion and it will be on the record. Commissioner Nault asked if an amendment to a conditional use permit require that all the surrounding property owners be noti- fied, answer no. Commissioner Bryson stated that the City can advertise in the newspapers that a hearing's being held. A public hearing is mandatory on a conditional use? Answer yes. Commis- sioner Nault: couldn't you just say that they should have to file for a conditional use permit if they're going to change the use? Commissioner Bryson: I don't really care how he does it I just think they should have a formal public hearing. To not have one I think is circumventing the zoning for the city. The only protec- tion the people in the city have is when something deviates from the norm, the norms that are legislated, in this case the zoning ordinance, they have a right, they have a basis for making their opinions known and that is not being allowed. Commissioner O'Reilly: The use of it as an RV park though that's not against the City code is it. Answer no. I mean as opposed to the case last week where the real estate office was. Planning Specialist Loper:, yes. The letter from the attorney's office was specific on that. Commissioner O'Reilly: so that's why we didn't have a public hearing on that one. Chairman Smalley: The RV park could be a permitted use under a conditional use. Commissioner Bryson: No, it will never be a permitted use. It could be a conditional use. Chairman Smalley: I know there are some people that came this evening to speak with regard this issue. Even though its not a hearing. Commissioner O'Reilly: Is that generally allowed? Chairman Smalley: We have in the past allowed them. Is there an objection. Commissioner Bryson: I have no objection. Just so its kept in mind its not formal testimony. Tanni Miller, 609 Ames Rd.: When this conditional use first came about in 1984 there was a lot of problems between the Foster Brothers and ourselves over what the ultimate goal was going to be for this pit. We had to fight with Chester Cone for many years and we thought, well, maybe when the Fosters come in it won't be quite as bad because when you argued with Chester he'd turn his hearing aid off and walk away from you. and it turned out, unfortunately to be a lot worse. And we thought we'd come to a meeting of the minds when the Foster Brothers and the residents on Ames Rd met at our house and discussed a conditional use permit and finally came to an agreement with all parties involved so that we would not fight their conditional use permit and that was the Foster Brothers ultimately turn it into a residential use only KENAI PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION July 13, 1988 Page 3 ~) area. It was going to have a nice little lake and all this lovely stuff. and as it turns out they definitely had ulterior motives because it has been going down hill from there. I feel very strongly as I think the majority of the people on Ames and Angler that our property is going to decrease so tremendously by having an RV park come in. We've lived on Ames Rd since 1972, we will continue to live on Ames Rd. I would hate to think the property that we have there is going to be totally useless with an RV park around because its turned into a slum. We were guaranteed by the Foster Brothers that it was going to be lovely homes of $150,000 to $250,000 on nice little lots. And I don't really think that an RV park is appropriate for the area. Chairman Smalley: Is there any other comments? Will Jahrig: This is getting routine here,.. My name ~is Will Jahrig and I'm a property owner in various places in the City. I've been before the board on zoning for my own property and I've tried to abide by every law and every rule that was ever set forth, I've tried to not step on peoples toes even though one time I came before I did step on peoples toes because there were people opposed to me using a heavy industrial lot down here on Bridge Access Rd. They didn't like it because of the fact that I was going to be a nuisance, I was going to cause problems, I tried to do everything in my power and I think I've done a real exception- ally good job of not doing anything negative for the people, as a matter of fact the people who were against it now. have. come to me and say that I have done a beautiful project. Your position here is to do the well being of the people. The problem we have down on Anglers Acres is that we are totally surrounded by residential, the area that Fosters wants to develop is residential around him. Where I was at I was surrounded on three sides by industrial then a bluff 45' at a different height between residential and myself. Now I feel I had a good argument and I'm sure they feel they have a good argument but I think when you start weighing the negative and the positives, what we have down there is strictly residential and because of the fact that there is some city people who are pushing for the money aspect of it, which I don't think the city is going to really reap from because of the fact that they're going to be stuck down in that area, as basically out of sight and as the saying goes, out of mind. They're down there, why would they have to come to Kenai. These people, their attitudes are going to be we're fishing the river. Now Fosters already come in once and they tried to get the boat ramp put in that was the beginning of the project and they got totally shot down because of that. The reason they got shot down because one thing the beginning the Corps wouldn't allow them to do it, I don't think anybody would allow them to put in the ramp whatsoever. All we ever heard was how the Fosters stated we have talked to these agencies, the agencies have been favorable, we KENAI PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION July 13, 1988 Page 4 1 never saw anything on paper that was favorable. I have never seen anything and if I'm wrong I stand to be corrected. But I don't see how anybody would allow any agency right now allow them to start dredging out the creek, a habitat for fisheries, a habitat for wildlife and also a habitat for people that want to live peacefully in a residential neighborhood. The ROW, we have an area that he's trying to make presentable and that's right, the intentions are good and if he follows the intentions all ready set forth under the conditional use permit on the previous he's doing a good job. Now if the man has a problem, the value of his property isn't there over residential lots I'm sorry for him. Why should we be hurt because his property isn't worth anything at this point. In a few years it will come around and then maybe what's he going to want to do, is he going to want to cancel out his conditional use permit on an RV and go for high rises, condo- miniums, you know what's going to be the next step for our situa- tion down there. I'm as much as anybody for bringing tourism to our city. Our city has a potential for tourism, I think we have a very positive outlook for tourism here, if its handled property but when you start spreading the areas out, there's one down at Beaver Creek then they'll put one out the beach, then we'll try and have one out at the old dump site, they talked about trying to do something there. Well, a little bit here. and there is not going to help ~ anybody at all and if we start ruining our property values down there which is, as far as I can see in dealing with Poachers Cove where I had property previously, there's nothing going to be in a positive aspect for the people who create the city. We have to deal with the people who live here and that's your position is tough because I know there's other people who have shown positive aspects so far but it should be like, actually we should have this coming before us for a hearing, I think because of the fact that we have people down here who have a voice they have a position they very much have a right to say ... we're the people, the people living there are the ones that should be heard first. Not the people who come here not the tourist, its good to have them come here and its good benefit to use their money that comes through but the people we've got to protect are the people who live here because we're the ones that's going to make or break the city. Not the outsiders. This place has been here for years now and if we can just keep the development going in a positive direction it'll be a positive spot. I just don't understand why we have to have a squabble down there in our area in a residential area. I know I hate to see what would happen if somebody came in behind your house and started to put in an RV park and that's basically what's happening down there, they're coming in behind us. So what's next. That's what worries me is what direction do they want to go next if this doesn't work. If this isn't a money maker for them then what's the next thing, they're going to try and go for the dig into the creek, push for that as much as they can, put a pond in and connect it, and put in another Poachers Cove. Boy I hope not, I just hope not. KENAI PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION July 13, 1988 Page 5 Chairman Smalley: Are there any other comments? Brian Lowe: My name is Brian Lowe and I live on Lot 6 Angler Drive and the RV is just going to destroy the area around there. You know there's .. what's going to be next is going to be the boat ramp if they get the RV park, the way I see it. Right now there's still going to be the traffic, on the slough, they'll be parking their boats all over the bank along there there'll be trespassing on all the properties, with all that boat traffic in there, environmentally it will be killing all the king salmon smelt and scaring all the moose away and its just going to make a disaster. And the slough can't handle that many boats. and I feel the RV park should not go in. Planning Specialist Loper: Would you say your name again please? Mr. Lowe pronounced and spelled his name. You know, would you want someone putting an RV park in your back door. You know I know Kenai needs an RV park, but you should find some where else to put is the way I feel. Chairman Smalley: Are there any further comments? John Groeneveld: My name is John Groeneveld and I have two pieces of property on Anglers Drive, lot 8 and lot 24. And my concern is primarily with the one the road traffic and foot traffic and the traffic on the slough, I think probably ... we have a development going on, it is residential along the slough and along the river side and I think its coming along very nicely, I think what's going to occur with the RV lot is that we're. .going to have an awful lot of traffic, in and out of the slough itself, degenerat- ing the ramps, the dock areas, the boat landings that we .currently have, as Brian said the king salmon area right in front of Beaver Creek is very good at this time and the smolt do run in that general area and any, any development or further boat traffic in that given area is certainly going to degenerate the fishery that we do have going in the Kenai River, I think that any further development of boat traffic that's going to be a real problem for us a11, I think that the foot traffic currently on lot 24 I have an awful lot of people who like to get down on the river and do their fishing and they have over the ... several past years in the past, have very nice home in the area and I don't care to have that be further trespassed by other than the Kenai residents who generally are backing off from it because they do see an awful lot of .... development in the area. As you know with RV's that brings an awful lot of extract activity that I don't think that the residents generally need. and I'm opposed to it and opposed to any further development, I do think that the Fosters are doing a nice job, and working on their properties, I think that it could be done, it could be put to better use than RV's at this point in time. Thank you. Chairman Smalley: Is there anyone else who would like to speak? ~ Dana Roth: My name is Dana Roth, I live next to the Lowes, Brian Lowe, the owners of the property are James Cowan and Giles Manwaring, I'm Giles' nephew, I stay there. I simply want to KENAI PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION July 13, 1988 Page 6 state for the record that I am in agreement with what I've heard here from the residents of Angler Drive and I feel that a park, a trailer park there would ... pertains in many ways, environmentally, as as, that, I believe it also hurts the creek itself, the additional mud washing, there's low water, I feel too it would hurt the ... trespassing, granted you get more people in an area there's a lot of private property right a lot of people just don't ... really ... aren't too courteous, not that the average person isn't but you get a few bad apples and it kind of starts a trend. I think boat traffic would definitely be increased regardless of whether there's a dock there or not. People are just going to tie their boats up to the bank, I have a feeling, (inaudible). Well anyway, I just wanted to state I'm in opposition to the Foster project. Thank you. Chairman Smalley: Any additional comments? John Lowe: My name is John Lowe and I also live on Anglers Drive down there and I'm in concurrence with everything except most of the property, they own to the meandering water line and from the proposed RV park down to the corner of where the mouth of Beaver Creek is all mud flats and there's no way to walk there. We have people today that are trying to walk down to the property, they'll park up above and they'll walk through our private property which we don't have posted because we never had a need to but there are people still trying to get down to that and you see them walking on down and they finally get down to the lower portion where there is gravel and its still private property so I can see where the people down at the lower portion of Anglers Drive will have more of a problem than we will but they're still trying to get down there with foot traffic. We were at Poachers Cove prior to this and we were the lot next to Poachers Cove and we put up a fence and we come up one morning and they were out there with a chain saw cut the tops off so they'd have some wood to burn. So I would imagine we'd have the same thing down there. But anyway I just wanted to express these things. Chairman Smalley: Is there any additional input? Helen Groeneveld: Hello I'm Helen Groeneveld, I'm part owner with my husband in lot 8 and lot 24. I share in the same sentiment as the other people. The issue is new to me, I'm not, like I say I haven't done my homework other than knowing that the lot is going in there. Myself, and grandchildren like to fish on our beach, we have part of the beach past the gravel area right at the mouth of Beaver lot 24 goes up and its a dreadful problem with people coming up and thinking your lot is ok parking. and I think that's probably what scares me most the people walk through our other lot to get down to the beach where we have our other lot, come up, go to the bathroom on our lot, say hey, this is a beach its ours, that's true, we accept that but they go up and throw their litter and everything else on the top, top of our lot, there's spiders up there, there's people going to the bathroom there. Like I say I cringe because of that, I don't know if that argument alone is KENAI PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION July 13, 1988 Page 7 j justification for that, additionally we now have a dock down on the creek, and if you take, if you have an opportunity to go up and down on that creek I would take a look at it its a small creek and it doesn't seem like it should be you know, a real creek that would resemble you know, New York harbor. Already that Beaver Loop intersection, if you all have fished in there, you know, you can see its, its the traffic in there you can't even get across it from one end to the other, its pretty congested. And I, again, I don't know how many spots he has planning in his trailer park but even if it was as many as 50 or 100 the thought you know, is pretty awesome, it just doesn't seem like the area can support that type of congestion. Thank you. From the audience: Don't do it. (Laughter) Chairman Smalley: any additional input? From the audience: Can we start again? (Laughter) Chairman Smalley: I think it should come back to us. Commissioner Church: I tend to agree with ... putting it to a public hearing. Commissioner Bryson: Could I make a motion here? MOTION: Commissioner Bryson: I would like to propose a motion stating that the proposed amendment constitutes a major. deviation from the intent of the existing conditional use permit and should not be considered without a formal public hearing being advertised and held. As findings of fact I'd like it stated that the original permit would not Have been approved had it contained the proposed amendment. Two, a public hearing is still necessary and appropri- ate, and three, effectively the proposed method of reclamation such as residential housing which is a permitted use is now requested to become ... is now requested to be omitted. Let me restate number three. Commissioner O'Reilly: Can I ask a question. If we were put this in the form of a public hearing would it be taken from the Plan- ning & Zoning and put back before the Council or ... its just that we want to have more public input. Planning Specialist Loper: I need clarification, I'd like to know what the public hearing is on, are you suggesting they come back to the Commission for a conditional use permit? Commissioner Bryson: I don't care if its a conditional use permit or a reopening of hearing ... the original permit was for the boat launch wasn't it? (inaudible) I don't know that they've come to us specifically on this yet. Planning Specialist Loper: That's what you're asking? Commission Bryson: I'll strike that. Planning Specialist Loper: That's what you're asking is that they come back for a conditional use? Commissioner Bryson: Well, I guess effectively that's what I'm saying, that they apply for a condi- tional use permit. I would personally be happy if the City were KENAI PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION July 13, 1988 Page 8 just to reopen up the public hearings on the original permit, it doesn't matter to me just so the public has a chance to comment. Chairman Smalley: We need a second on the motion. Planning Specialist Loper: I need to hear the motion again. Commissioner Church: .Restate the motion please. (Laughter) Voice: Please. Chairman Smalley: Read it Phil. MOTION RESTATED: Commissioner Bryson: I propose a motion stating that the ... the immense ... the proposed. amendment constitutes a major deviation from the intent of the existing conditional use permit and should not be considered without a formal public hearing being advertised and held. As findings of fact I would like number one, the original permit would not have been approved had it contained the proposed amendment and two, a public hearing is necessary and appropriate. Chairman Smalley: Is there a second. Commissioner Church: I second that. Chairman Smalley: With a motion and a second, discussion. Commissioner O'Reilly: If we go ahead and have a public hearing is that in essence, saying no to what they're asking for right now. Because he wants a conditional use permit, I mean they want ... Chairman Smalley: he wants them to go thrQUgh that process, he isn't necessarily saying he wants them to have a conditional use. He wants that process. Commissioner O'Reilly: But if we're asking them to go through that process of applying for a conditional use permit then in essence we're saying that we're not going to approve their request for an amendment. Commissioner Church: That's correct, we need more public input. Commissioner Bryson:. What I'm saying is that the amendment .. I still don't think the amendment is appropriate. Commissioner Nault: Would it be more appropriate to deny the amendment. Commissioner O'Reilly: Either way you have to vote on this. Commissioner Bryson: Keep in mind that if you get reversed at the Council level its approved. (inaudible voices) Chairman Smalley: If we vote, if this is voted down it can be appealed to Council and Council can reverse our decision. And then its there's. Commissioner Nault: So if we deny the amendment Council can reverse that. Commissioner Bryson: They can approve the amendment, yes. Chairman Smalley: But I think it stands as a message to Council ~ that this is probably a more appropriate way to handle this particular matter. To allow the public to provide input rather than to have something without ... Commissioner Nault: We could KENAI PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION July 13, 1988 Page 9 l deny the amendment, pass it on to Council with the recommendation that it be submitted as a conditional use? Planning Specialist Loper: Council does not hear conditional use permits. Commis- sioner Nault: I know but stating clearly that the message is that we don't feel the amendment is the proper vehicle to be doing this. Chairman Smalley: I think Council will be getting a copy of these minutes. Commissioner O'Reilly: Except, Council has done everything that is within the ordinance, I mean it is our decision, this is what Planning & Zoning Commission is supposed to be doing, making the decision. Chairman Smalley: yes or no. Commissioner Bryson: As near as I could tell from the minutes of the Council, they're up for interpretation, they were saying, well the amendment is the proper way to take ... and I feel its a major deviation. Commissioner Nault: Now what's the zoning for that area, 'is that rural residential? Answer yes. And an RV park is ... a permitted conditional use in a rural residential use. Planning Specialist Loper: An RV park is not mentioned at all, and by its omission it is allowed. Now that is the way it was explained to me. You're saying that you want it to be a conditional use is that right, rather than an amendment. Commissioner Bryson: I would paraphrase it ... that .. its not stated, its not addressed, in that a conditional use approval is the appropriate vehicle for permitting it. Commissioner Church: Well its such a great ... the original application was for extrac- tion of gravel and now its a completely different thing that he's asking for in an amendment and it should be two different things, I agree. Chairman Smalley: And I think a conditional use permit, you know, since it isn't specifically spoken to in the book, you know, that allows public testimony to those people that could be potentially affected by any kind of development as such and allows that testimony to go on record. Commissioner Bryson: The major deviation I see in both cases he's proposing, effectively, gravel extraction will occur, however,r in the second situation he's substituted the permitted use which was the housing and substituting an item that isn't addressed (inaudi- ble) Commissioner Church: I agree. Commissioner Nault: Well in the Council minutes, Administrative Assistant Gerstlauer stated that it doesn't have to be doesn't have to be a conditional use permit because its part of the reclamation. Commissioner O'Reilly: The other thing that I would bring up is if we go back and bring this up for more public testimony, this KENAI PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION July 13, 1988 Page 10 `} man, he's not under tremendous time constraints but if he wants to make this RV park go for next tourist season he needs to be able to get underway with that as quickly as possible. From the audience, several different voices: But we don't want him to. We have a right to stop that too. We have a right to live the way we want to. Commissioner Bryson: What it has come down to is the same thing in the public hearing process, the property owners have the right to petition ... items concerning their property. Commissioner Nault: So its both sides. Chairman Smalley: I agree wholeheartedly and I think what Phil is doing is trying to .. with this motion is to make that avenue available to both parties. Those that live out there and people that own the property. Chairman Smalley: any further discussion? Commissioner Nault: Well yea. Now if we're going to consider this as an amendment to a current conditional use permit we have the authority to call a public hearing on that? Several inaudible voices. Commissioner Bryson: Normally the public hearing is initiated by the application for conditional use. Commissioner Nault: We're not having that position though. My question is are we allowed to call for a public hearing. Commissioner Church: That's right. On an amendment. Chairman Smalley: I think in his findings of fact statement the original permit would probably not have been approved had it contained that proposed amendment. The code book speaks to had it initially been approved then so shall their additional request be approved. But it was not. Planning Specialist Loper: May I make a suggestion, we're getting so fouled up in red tape here, I don't think any of us knows what we're doing here. Commissioner Church: Right. Planning Specialist Loper: Why not just a simple fail or pass, what's on the floor right now, I don't mean the amendment motion because that is something I can't keep up with, but just simply pass or fail the issue at hand. And then pass a second motion that says if he wants to return for a public hearing and go for a conditional use then that's the way you're recommending rather than this great big long statement. Commissioner Bryson: Findings of fact are very important when an item is going to be ruled on. Planning Specialist Loper: Yes, I agree, but you are confusing the issue at this point, the issue i.s do you want to pass this or don't you. Yes or no. Wouldn't that be the easier way, then your finding of facts, but you're also KENAI PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION July 13, 1988 Page 11 secondly recommending it come back for public hearing and you're recommending it come back for conditional use. Commissioner Bryson: I feel there's two specific items here. One is the appropriateness of this conditional use. Planning Specialist Loper: That's what I just said. Commissioner Bryson: Well I'm addressing the first (Several portions of conversation are inaudible due to many people speaking at once and a very loud, over riding chair squeaking) one, I think it is the more important one. I haven't even indicated what I think about the RV park. I may be very supportive of it. Commissioner Church: If we fail to pass the amendment it goes back to Council. Planning Specialist Loper: No it doesn't. (several voices all inaudible) Chairman Smalley: They can appeal it. According to Mr. Brighton and .... (several voices inaudible) Chairman Smalley: (reading from Council minutes) Councilwoman Swarner says then do I understand that it does not come back before us like zoning if it has been defeated, no, only if their decision is appealed. (several voices inaudible) Planning Specialist Loper: (reading from code book) Intent, this section governs all public hearings held by the Commission as required, this is not a public hearing. That's all it addresses here is public hearings, I believe that is the only thing that may be appealed to Council from this. Chairman Smalley: (reading from Council minutes) Councilwoman Bailie, are you saying that anyone who comes before Planning & Zoning may get a negative response to them does not have the right to appeal to Council, City Manager Brighton, yes, they do have that right. Planning Specialist Loper: This section only deals with public hearings and leads me to believe that (inaudible). Chairman Smalley: (all of these comments are too soft to be heard, however, Mr. Smalley is reading from a document) Commissioner Bryson: I think in addressing the applicability of the appeals, we're advisory in some aspects and have a decision making power in others, and the ones in which we have the decision making power can be reviewed, the other ones can be over ruled by off .. Council. Commissioner O'Reilly: I agree with Janet because I think we should vote yes or no on the RV park and then if you want them to bring it up as a conditional use permit, make that a second motion or a second ..... Planning Specialist Loper: It would be a real clean and easy way of doing it. Administrative Assistant Gerstlauer: About appeals, section 14.20.290 (reading from code) "appeals board of adjustment, appeals for decisions for administrative officials and commission shall be heard by the Kenai City Council acting as board of adjustment" and it goes on to list procedures. This is not in connection with the other .. there is a section here on public hearings and appeals ... Chairman Smalley: So any negative response can be appealed. KENAI PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION July 13, 1988 Page 12 1 Administrative Assistant Gerstlauer: I don't know if this is .. The Council voted by a 5 to 1 vote to approve that. To approve the gravel .. RV park. Chairman Smalley: Yes, I'm aware of that. Administrative Assistant Gerstlauer: They also .... (reading from Council minutes) "we have the question before us to support the concept of the Foster Brothers reclamation and it was a 5 to 1 vote. Commissioner Bryson: But in the same light they're circumventing the public ... Administrative Assistant Gerstlauer: I'm saying that if you vote it down here and they appeal it ... (several voices - inaudible) VOTE: Chairman Smalley: Ok, we have a motion on the floor and its been seconded, any further discussion. Do we want .. is everybody squared away as to what the motion .... Commissioner O'Reilly: This is the motion .... Chairman Smalley: This is the motion requesting a public hearing to support facts finding finding of facts so on. Which in a sense speaks against ... well no it doesn't either, it just speaking strictly on the conditional use itself. It has nothing to do with the RV. Commissioner Church: That's right. Call the roll. Chairman Smalley - yes Commissioner Bryson - yes Commissioner Church - yes Commissioner Nault - yes Commissioner O'Reilly - no Planning Specialist Loper: Can I have that motion in writing please? Chairman Smalley: Can we take 5 minutes so he can write it down. Commission recessed for 10 minutes. Chairman Smalley: The Commission is back in session. I do have a question. Does this in a sense not deal with the specific issue that came before us. Planning Specialist Loper: Yes. And I'm still trying to read through this motion. Commissioner Church: Take all the legalese out of it and it will make sense. Administrative Assistant Gerstlauer: He does not want it to be considered without a public hearing so actually isn't he post- poning action on it until a public hearing can be held. Commissioner Bryson: I think probably a motion on that would be appropriate. Actually if there's been no .... Planning Specialist Loper: In the first finding of fact, (reading the motion) "the original permit would not have been approved had it contained the proposed amendment", that tells me no you don't want it. Commissioner Bryson: I'm saying the amendment is inappropriate. Planning Specialist Loper: So your intent in the motion is voting it down. KENAI PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION July 13, 1988 Page 13 Commissioner Nault: It says in here that the only way you can approve an amendment to a conditional use permit is if the amendment, if the contents of the amendment are something that would have been approved had it contained in the original permit request. Chairman Smalley: And that's what this speaks to because it was not in the original request in any form and it would not have been approved. Commissioner O'Reilly: I have a question, by the Commission voting in favor of that motion, are we, are those people who voted yes, are they saying that they are in ... they would not have voted this in had it been in the initial permit. (several voices - all inaudible) Planning Specialist Loper: How can you say what you would have done three years ago. Chairman Smalley: I can say what I would have done. Commissioner Bryson: That is the only condition that you have to address on denying amendments. You know. I think its appropriate. We do have public testimony ... and we do have the .... Commissioners opinion at the time. Granted half the Commissioners are new. Chairman Smalley: But based on the findings of fact at that time. Commissioner O'Reilly: I don't think its fair for any (change of tape and loss of end of statement) Commissioner Bryson: ... and go back to the findings of fact and see what was found to be the case. And that's the only thing they will decide on. What is the backup information that addressed .... Commissioner O'Reilly: Who is the they that you are referring to, Planning & Zoning Commission or Council. Commissioner Bryson: Which ever side is contesting the .... Planning Specialist Loper: Contesting, are saying appeal? Commissioner Bryson: I don't know. Planning Specialist Loper: I think it sounds like Margaret and I are still confused about what it is you're trying to say. Commissioner Bryson: We're making a decision, if its contested they will go to findings of fact to determine if .. to support the original motion. I, I, I'm ... to make a decision on the original motion. Planning Specialist Loper: Which would have been the one on the permit three years ago when the permit went through is that what you're referring to. Commissioner Bryson: No, the motion is that the amendment process is not appropriate. Chairman Smalley: The original application did not have an amendment in it specifically stating what the develop of an RV park. When you're talking about making a change, an amendment to a conditional use, it suggests that if it would have been in there and it would have approved, then you can approve it well it wasn't in there and the contention is that at that point in time the findings of fact would lead us to believe it would not have been approved and if you check the records you'll find it was a unanimous consent opposed to it .. well not opposed to it, it was unanimous opposed to other type of development. They approved unanimously ... it was approved to make residential houses in KENAI PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION July 13, 1988 Page 14 there. Planning Specialist Loper: Because nothing else was proposed at the time. Chairman Smalley: Nothing else was proposed so he's saying its inappropriate to give this amendment because it is a major deviation. Commissioner O'Reilly: It seems that we can say that there is a major deviation from what was originally proposed, the problem that I have with that is I don't think we can say that it would not have passed as presented. I mean, yes, it is different but can we say it would not have passed. Planning Specialist Loper: Right now there are only two Commissioners from the original Commission when this first came through three years ago. That would be two out of five. Chairman Smalley: I think if you go back and check the record, if you check the testimony that came in ... Commissioner Church: You mean on the residential requirement? Chairman Smalley: No, Phil and I were the only two that were here. Commissioner Bryson: My comment on that would be ... your vote on the motion indicates your opinion on the motion. And ... you know, if you feel that the wording is inappropriate or incorrect ... perhaps it should be brought up for reconsideration. Commissioner O'Reilly: I have another question, with this motion in hand and passed by the Commission, is it possible to bring up another motion that deals directly with whether or not we should allow the RV park. Commissioner Bryson: You could make another motion over riding this motion and ... Commissioner O'Reilly: Would you have, I just have a technical question.,. would you have to over ride that motion in order to make a motion to vote on the RV park. Planning Specialist Loper: I would assume so because if I'm understanding Phil right, what he's saying is that he feels the amendment process is not the appropriate process. He's not saying yes or no to the RV park, I think that's what you're getting isn't it? Answer yes. Commissioner Nault: It's not a request for a public hearing is it? Chairman Smalley: Yes it does. Planning Specialist Loper: (reading from the written motion) It says, "it should not be considered without a formal public hearing behind advertised". So he's saying number one its inappropriate to approach it this way and number two he wants a public hearing. Commissioner O'Reilly: For an amendment we can't though. We passed that motion that doesn't say ... Planning Specialist Loper: ... agreeing that ... that's why I kept trying to get clarification on what are you doing. Chairman Smalley: So at this point in time then, based on that motion and request for public hearing, in a sense then its no longer an issue. It would go back to Council for their decision as far as suggest that we bring it to public hearing? Council doesn't set public hearings. Planning Specialist Loper: No, your motion is asking for the public hearing not Council. Chairman Smalley: Ok, then what do the Foster Brothers have to take to Council ... by our action here. Planning Specialist Loper: Nothing. You've said its inappropriate the way it was presented and you want a public hearing. Commissioner Church: And didn't you say it should be a conditional use permit application on the KENAI PLANNING & ZONING CONlNIISSION July 13, 1988 Page 15 > RV park itself? Commissioner Bryson: That's the end result of it. They still have a use ... Commissioner Church: And who does this, the Fosters have to make application for a conditional use permit for the RV park, not the Council. Chairman Smalley: For our own protection would we be best off placing another motion. Commissioner Nault: Well that's what I was just going to suggest, that, if we could reconsider this motion and separate these two questions, it might make things a little more clear. Separate the two questions of whether an amendment is an appropriate vehicle for requesting what they want to request and whether, there ought to be a motion suggesting that a conditional use permit is the proper vehicle. Commissioner Church: We're not answering his question. Because he's requesting and amendment. Commissioner O'Reilly: That goes back to the original idea we brought up before he made the motion was brought up as to whether .. during discussion I guess ... Chairman Smalley: The motion indicates the amendment process is inappropriate according to us so I think that would speak specific to his request. Commissioner Church: Ok. The microphone began to squeal at this point - a large part of conversation is lost. Commissioner Nault: I was at a Council meeting a couple weeks ago, it was a meeting or a work session, he was there and he brought up this same notion and I think the loyal opposition were also present and at that point the Council's direction to_him was this doesn't belong here take it to Planning & Zoning. Commissioner O'Reilly: And then Council brought it up again. And gave approval. Commissioner Nault: Right, the discussion began with a report on the Economic Development Commission and about having an RV park within the City somewhere and it somehow meandered over to this application. And I don't know was there an application before the Council at the time the discussion meandered in this direction. Commissioner Bryson: No, applications would come before Planning & Zoning Commission rather than Council. Commissioner Nault: So nothing formally was before Council regarding Fosters proposal. Commissioner Bryson: Correct. Commissioner Nault: So discussion just happened to move along in that direction and they ended up voicing their support for the kind of concept they believe he's proposing though he wasn't proposing anything at that point. Commissioner O'Reilly; So is there anybody here that can answer this question about whether we can make a motion saying yes or no to the RV park. Chairman Smalley: You can do that. Commissioner Nault: I think to clean things up what we need to do is .... Chairman Smalley: The prior motion doesn't speak towards the RV park it speaks towards the process. Commissioner Nault: but what are we going to vote on. If we're going to say his process is inappropriate then why are we even going to consider it a question if he hasn't put it before us in a way we consider it appropriate. Chairman Smalley: One thing that would be appropriate would be for us to move for a postponement on that decision until Council KENAI PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION July 13, 1988 Page 16 ~ has had a chance to review our recommendation to them. Commissioner O'Reilly: But that's not our recommendation, that's just our opinion on this decision. That's a recommendation to the technicality of whether it should be an amendment or a new conditional use. Commissioner Nault: Right. MOTION: Commissioner O'Reilly: I move that the Planning & Zoning Comnissiom recommends approval of the amendment to the conditional use permit, Chairman Smalley: Just for the sake of the audience all motions through Planning & Zoning have to be addressed in a positive manner. Is there a second to that motion. Commissioner Nault: I'll second. Chairman Smalley: There's a motion and second to approve the amendment. Discussion. Commissioner O'Reilly: I can say that as an employee of the Kenai Chamber of Commerce I see tourists every single day. I was there when the Chamber of Commerce was taking a survey as to how many people were asking for RV parks and I do believe that it will bring quite a bit of money into the City of Kenai and its not that people are going to be stuck in Beaver Loop because is what happened, the 60 and 65 year old people driving,;,the RV's have come to the Chamber and say, what's there to do in Kenai and also where can I go, where is there a nice RV park where I can hook up. So they're in the City in the heart of the City already and then you can say there's an RV park here on Beaver Loop. And I also feel that, its not the responsibility of the City to build an RV park and here's a person in the private sector who wants to build it, they have the financing available, and I feel that that's the way it should be done. Chairman Smalley: Any other discussion. Commissioner Nault: Yea, I guess I have some. I guess I feel that we need to separate the concept of a privately developed RV park from the question of whether its an appropriate use in the neighborhood that its in or the neighborhood its proposed for. I think they're two separate questions and I don't think we should necessarily wrap them up in one ball. Chairman Smalley: In a sense then what are you saying. Commissioner Nault: I'm saying that its ... I'm saying that what we need to consider is the appropriateness of that conditional use for that particular neighborhood rather than get all wrapped up in the issue of whether we all support a privately funded RV park some where in Kenai. Whoever asks first gets it. Chairman Smalley: Any other discussion. Comment, Margaret, based on what you said, based on some of the testimony that came in from earlier tonight from folks that live in that general vicinity, is it in the best interest of the City to allow a use that will .. may bring potential revenue for ... store and shop owners in the KENAI PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION July 13, 1988 Page 17 City of Kenai for a short period of time and potentially create a land devaluation for property owners that live out there. Which, what is in the best interest of the City. Commissioner O'Reilly: Is it ... where is it determined exactly that the land will definitely go down in value because of the fact that there's an RV park. It would depend first off on the nature of the RV park, if the Fosters build an RV park which is nice, which is clean, which has grass, the people that want to inhabit these RV parks ask for that kind of thing and I think as a private enterprise you would try to please your customers. So I think if it turned into an RV park which was nice which is what we'd all like, that may not put the value of the property down. Chairman Smalley: In a discussion with a real estate broker just today concerning that specific issue, that is something that can have an effect on property value. People trying to sell real estate in an area that may be affected by an RV park. Because of the increase in traffic, foot traffic, automobile traffic, etc. That particular area being a road that does not have a margin on the side, a two lane road. It will have a negative impact on property value and that came from one real estate broker today. I called specifically because I had contacted ten people that live down in that area and asked them about it. Some of those folks are trying to sell and that's also what they had been told. So I also contacted just one of those real estate agencies, and they said oh yes it definitely will have an affect... Commissioner O'Reilly: Well everything has an effect. But real estate values are quite relevant. I think that you, I'm not saying that you could find another real estate agent who would say that it was going to increase the value of the property, however, its not set in stone, it makes a difference as to what type of RV park its going to be. Chairman Smalley: I agree with that but perhaps there's, perhaps there's more appropriate land available within the City for such a use than development rather than in a residential zone. Commissioner O'Reilly: But would it be appropriate to have an RV park in, I think a residential zone would be an appropriate place for an RV park. Much hooting, laughter and comments from audience. Commissioner Nault: Can I make a comment? Chairman Smalley: One more comment. Commissioner Nault: I just found a more organized way to say what I was trying to say. Conditional uses are supposed to be (reading from Code) "similar to principal uses permitted in the zone and in harmony with the intent of the zone". The intent of that zone is to preserve the rural or good quality of the environment to prevent health hazards in areas not served by public water and sewer. We're supposed to prohibit uses which would violate the residential character of the environment and generate heavy traffic in predominately residential areas. And I KENAI PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION July 13, 1988 Page 18 think there are several of these things that people have directly spoken to tonight including that the public health hazard because it is not served by water and sewer and people don't have the facilities they need in that area. In terms of preserving the rural open quality of the environment because its a much heavier density of development than anything that's out there. Even though its only for part of the year its going to increase the population in that area incredibly for a period of time. Which in my mind would violate the residential character of the environment you would also generate heavy traffic in a predominately residential area and it would probably contribute to the trespass problem to these folks who own their property out there. So if that's a more organized way what I was trying to say. Chairman Smalley: Any additional comments. Would you please read the motion. Planning Specialist Loper: "move that the Planning & Zoning Commissioner recommends approval of the amendment to the conditional use permit, Chairman Smalley: Question. VOTE: Commissioner Bryson - no Commissioner Church - no Commissioner Nault - no Commissioner O`Reilly - yes Chairman Smalley - no Chairman Smalley: That took a long time. I think is clarified ... Commissioner Nault: The only other thing I want to do is clarify to City Council that our intent was to deny it as an amendment and to make it clear to them that the proper vehicle for bringing it back to the Commission is a new conditional use. Chairman Smalley: Phil's motion should do that. Commissioner O'Reilly: Well the two together should do that. Chairman Smalley: Someone may have to read it to them ... I understand what you're saying. Commissioner Nault: The last issue that I feel like we dealt which this on was the question of the rezoning of that Dena'Ina Point subdivision and I don't feel like a lot of the things we did were clearly communicated having gone to the City Council meeting where they all considered the issue. I want to make it very clear to them that that's what we're doing, we're not expressing an opinion on the RV park yes or no, what we're doing is expressing an opinion that the amendment is not the way to go about it. Chairman Smalley: I think dealing with Phil's motion first and this one second speaks to that. Margaret can tell her mom. Going along. KENAI PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION July 13, 1988 Page 19 b. Lease Application: Tract B, Gusty S/D #6 - James H. Doyle c. Lease Application: Tract C, Gusty S/D #6 - James H. Doyle TAKEN TOGETHER Administrative Assistant Gerstlauer explained that both leases are for additional parking of trailer vans adjacent to his existing lease. The lease application designates five to ten years, you may want to be more specific, either five or ten. Commissioner Nault asked what was on the lot presently, answer a few trees and trailer vans. Commissioner Nault stated that there is a large scale project going on there, is that just Coral Street? Answer yes. MOTION: Commissioner Bryson moved to approve the leases from James Doyle for Tracts B and C for Gusty S/D #6 for a period of ten years, seconded by Commissioner O'Reilly. VOTE: Motion passed unanimously by roll call vote d. Leased Lands/Approval of Building: Lots 5 & 6, Block 4, CIIAP Haliburton Administrative Assistant Gerstlauer explained that this is a request for a simple addition to their building. A representative of Haliburton explained that this is a dry storage shed on the south side of the lot. Commissioner Bryson asked if they were in compliance with their development, answer they have been in business several years, they have a very old lease with the covenant that any construction come before this body. MOTION: Commissioner Bryson moved to approve the proposed amendment of lease for Lots 5 & 6 CIIAP for Haliburton, seconded by Commissioner O'Reilly VOTE: Motion passed unanimously by roll call vote e. Leased Lands/A royal of Building: Inlet Salmon, Inc. Administrative Assistant Gerstlauer explained that the drawing is very confusing. In looking at the area with the dock, it is their ~ plant, however, what you won't find is the area for construction. It appears that perhaps it will be built on to the end of the building, and perhaps not even attached to the building. It is KENAI PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION July 13, 1988 Page 20 going to be used just for storage. This is similar to the other lease. Commissioner Nault noted that the drawing does state the building will be attached. Commissioner Nault asked if it meets all setback requirements, answer it is addressed through the building permit process and it is in an industrial zone. Chairman Smalley asked if we approve this for storage of say, paper products, can it be used for anything else? Answer from Administrative Assistant Gerstlauer, you are really only approving the construction of the building, not what it is used for. You only come into use situations when the uses are changed of the over all lease. MOTION: Commissioner Bryson moved to approve the requested building modification for the lease to Inlet Salmon, seconded by Church VOTE: Motion passed unanimously by roll call vote. 8. PLANNING Chairman Smalley noted that the books are in for the comprehensive plan and we will be setting work sessions in the near future. Chairman Smalley asked if Dana leaves will she be replaced, answer yes. 9. REPORTS a. Citv Council No report - agenda is provided. The Council is meeting this evening regarding RV parks. b. Borough Planning Commissioner Bryson reported that there is a special public hearing planned at Nikiski High School next Monday regarding the proposed industrial solid waste disposal near Unocal. Commissioner Bryson will report on Dena'Ina Point Estates zoning question at the next meeting. c. City Administration Administrative Assistant Gerstlauer reported on the cold storage facility - it is still on-going. 10. PERSONS PRESENT NOT SCHEDULED TO BE HEARD None KENAI PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION July 13, 1988 Page 21 11. INFORMATION ITEMS a. Council Agenda b. Borough Agenda c. APA Newsletter d. Article on Real Estate (source unknown) 12. COMMISSION COMMENTS & QUESTIONS Chairman Smalley referenced the letter from the attorney regarding the realty in a residential zone, she will not be returning, answer no. Commissioner Smalley asked for a message to be passed to Council, "I specifically am not opposed to RV parks in the City of Kenai, I think that they definitely can be advantageous to the City, there's not doubt about that, the amount of tourism is here. I think they need to take a real careful look and find property that would be better suited within the City for such development and I believe it does exist". 13. ADJOURNMENT There being no further business, the meeting was adjourned. Janet A. Loper Planning Specialist PLANNING & Roll Call ZONING COMMISSION /////// CHAIRMAN Hal Smalle ~~ ~ ~~ ~~ Dave Brown _ _ Phil Br son ~J ~ I ~ ~~ Gloria Church /~ t ~ Pat Nault ~ ) ~ ~ ~ Margaret 0' Reil y ~r/ i \' ~I \ TO DO LIST: DATE: NOTES: o~~~~ ~ ~~~~ ~~~ .r," -- ' --~{~~~ __ , . F a ~ _____ _ ~ t__ ____.__~' Q ~! _ ~~ __ ~~~~ ~.-~___.__-i--~-~3 ______ _ __-__~ _.__.__ i / ~ ~ f ----__ _---__ ---__- _--------------------- r