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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1996-05-08 P&Z Minutes~~~ CITY OF KENAI PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION **AGENDA** Council Chambers, 210 Fidalgo May 8, 1996, 7:00 p.m. Chairman Kevin Walker 1. ROLL CALL: 2. APPROVAL OF AGENDA: 3. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Apri124, 1996 4. PERSONS PRESENT SCHEDULED TO BE HEARD: 5. CONSIDERATION OF PLATS: 6. PUBLIC HEARINGS: a. PZ96-32-Encroachment-Lot 2, Block 2, Spruce Grove Subdivision b. PZ96-33-Variance-Lot 23, Block 4, Basin View Subdivision c. PZ96-34-Conditional Use Permit-Lot 20, Anglers Acres d. PZ96-35-Conditional Use Permit-Tract A, Block 1, Bridge Road Subdivision No. 2 e. PZ96-36-Variance-Lot 10, Block 7, Inlet View Subdivision f. PZ96-37-Conditional Use Permit-Gov't Lot 5, Section 11, T5N, R111W, S.M. 7. NEW BUSINESS: a. PZ96-30 -Home Occupational Permit -Child Care - Carlough (Continued from 4/24/96) 8. OLD BUSINESS: a. Prime Residential Zone (Christian) b. Purchase or trade of Richka Park Property for Airport Buffer Zone (Discussion) 9. CODE ENFORCEMENT ITEMS: 10. REPORTS: a. City Council b. Borough Planning ~ c. Administration Planning & Zoning Commission. Page 2 Agenda May 8, 1996 12. INFORMATION ITEMS: a. KPB Notice of Planning Commission Action - Hakkinen Estates Preliminary Plat b. US Army Corps of Engineers Public Notice of Application for Permit 13. COMMISSION COMMENTS & QUESTIONS: 14. ADJOURNMENT: UNAPPROVED CITY OF KENAI PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION May 8, 1996 Minutes 1. ROLL CALL: Members present: Carl Glick, Phil Bryson, Teresa Werner-Quade, Ron Goecke, John Booth, Karen Mahurin, Kevin Walker Others present: Councilman Hal Smalley, City Engineer Jack La Shot, Administrative Assistant Marilyn Kebschull 2. APPROVAL OF AGENDA: GOECKE MOVED FOR APPROVAL OF AGENDA WITH THE ADDITION OF THE LETTERS THAT WERE PASSED OUT TONIGHT AND ASKED FOR UNANIMOUS CONSENT. MOTION SECONDED BY GLICK. Chairman Walker noted Item 11, Persons Present Not Scheduled To Be Heard, was missing and asked if anyone would care to address that. Bryson requested that Item 11 be added to the agenda. Maker of the motion concurred as did the second. Walker asked if anyone opposed unanimous consent of the agenda with the additions. None noted. AGENDA APPROVED. 3. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Apri124, 1996 GLICK MOVED FOR APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES OF APRIL 24, 1996 AND ASKED FOR UNANIMOUS CONSENT. MOTION SECONDED BY GOECKE. Walker asked if anyone opposed unanimous consent. None noted but Werner-Quade asked to make a correction. Werner-Quade commented that on members present, Bryson was listed twice. On page 8, fourth paragraph read, "...reiterated the issue before the issue before the Commission.." Also asked that her name be spelled Teresa without the H. Planning & Zoning Commission Minutes Page 2 May 8, 1996 Walker asked for other corrections. Walker asked if anyone opposed unanimous consent. MINUTES APPROVED. 4. PERSONS PRESENT SCHEDULED TO BE HEARD: None. 5. CONSIDERATION OF PLATS: None. 6. PUBLIC HEARINGS: a. PZ96-32-Encroachment-Lot 2, Block 2, Spruce Grove Subdivision GLICK MOVED FOR APPROVAL OF PZ96-32, ENCROACHMENT, LOT 2, BLOCK 2, SPRUCE GROVE SUBDIVISION. MOTION SECONDED BY BRYSON. Walker asked for additional staff comment. La Shot noted that if the encroachment of the front yard was only a garage, it wouldn't be an encroachment as the code allows that. A garage can encroach up to 10 feet from the right of way. PUBLIC HEARING OPENED. No comments received. PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED. Walker brought item back to Commission for discussion. None noted. VOTE: GLICK YES BRYSON YES WERNER-QUADE YES GOECKE YES BOOTH YES MAHURIN YES WALKER YES UNANIMOUS. b. PZ96-33-Variance-Lot 23, Block 4, Basin View Subdivision GOECKE RECOMMENDED APPROVAL OF PZ96-33 VARIANCE FOR A GARAGE/WORK SHOP LOT 23, BLOCK 4, BASIN VIEW SUBDIVISION. MOTION SECONDED BY GLICK. Planning & Zoning Commission Page 3 Minutes May 8, 1996 Walker asked for additional staff comment. None given. PUBLIC HEARING OPENED. No comment received. PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED. Item brought back to the Commission. Bryson asked if either adjacent property owner had commented. La Shot noted no comments had been received. Mahurin noted she will be voting no noting that variances are a concern that she has expressed many times. Mahurin commented that they have an opportunity to stop something that violates the code before it begins so will be voting no. VOTE: BRYSON YES GOECKE YES MAHURIN NO WALKER YES WERNER-QUADE YES BOOTH YES GLICK NO MOTION PASSED. c. PZ96-34-Conditional Use Permit-Lot 20, Anglers Acres MAHURIN MOVED FOR APPROVAL OF PZ96-34. MOTION SECONDED BY BOOTH. Walker asked for additional staff comment. None noted. Walker stated that before he opened the public hearing he wanted to asked the maker of the motion if she wishes to include the staff recommendations in that motion. Mahurin noted yes and Booth concurred. PUBLIC HEARING OPENED. No one commented. PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED. Walker brought the item back to the Commission for discussion. Werner-Quade stated she wondered if Mr. Dere had a DEC approved septic for that number of people. Mr. Dere came forward and Werner-Quade asked if he had the DEC permit for that number of people to occupy the residence. Dere advised yes. Mahurin Planning & Zoning Commission Page 4 Minutes May 8, 1996 asked Dere if he was planning to park the boats in the river or on the property. Dere stated it would be on Beaver Creek. Chairman Walker advised that Mr. Ron Rainey had called in and requested to submit his support of this item. VOTE: WERNER-QUADE YES GOECKE YES BOOTH YES MAHURIN YES GLICK YES BRYSON YES WALKER YES UNANIMOUS. d. PZ96-35-Conditional Use Permit-Tract A, Block 1, Bridge Road Subdivision No. 2 BRYSON RECOMMENDED APPROVAL OF PZ96-35. BRYSON STATED HIS INTENT TO INCORPORATE STAFF (CITY ENGINEER) COMENTS. MOTION SECONDED BY BOOTH. Walker asked for additional staff comments. La Shot stated nothing additional but the applicants are available to answer questions. PUBLIC HEARNG OPENED. No comments received. PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED. Item brought back to the Commission for discussion. Walker noted there are several letters opposing the permit in the packet with concerns that the Commission may wish to address. Walker asked for discussion on the item. Goecke commented that having read the letters, it doesn't sound like the neighbors are too happy. Bryson stated he personally feels given the existing zoning in the area this type of activity won't affect the area. Bryson noted he feels that the property limits should be delineated in some way to contain the activity on the property and that the activity stay within those limits. Bryson stated he also felt parking should be provided onsite. Bryson stated he felt a review of the permit in one year might be appropriate. Glick asked if that was a motion and Bryson stated they were his comments. Planning & Zoning Commission Page 5 Minutes May 8, 1996 Mahurin stated she felt it important to note that in the backup material it stated their intent to be open Saturday, Sundays, and Wednesdays with vehicles not arriving before 10 a.m. and leaving occasionally as late as 8 p.m. during summer months. Mahurin stated she didn't have a lot of concerns about that and wanted to make the Commission aware of those comments. Goecke commented that he agrees with everything that has been said and that if they can provide parking on that property and not on that road which the neighbors are concerned about. If they can make a border and require users to stay within their property, Goecke noted he doesn't have a severe problem with it. Goecke, noting he doesn't think it is these people doing this, commented that the building he is in with his business has been hit with paint balls so has a bit of a sour taste because of these things. Goecke stated if they can assure him they can keep it on their property and the parking on their property, he is willing to give them a chance for one year. Smalley asked if under the consideration after one year, would there be a waiver of additional filing fees each year or would they have to pay a new filing fee each year. La Shot stated he thought for review, it would not be necessary to refile. Walker stated that as he understands it these people are just out and shooting at each other with paint balls and he doesn't see that they are changing the property appreciably requiring P&Z action. Walker stated that as long as they are contained within their borders, he will support the item. Walker stated he would like to note the paint ball guns are in town and he would rather see a place to go for people to use them than on public buildings and items like that. Walker added he will be supporting this initiative. CLICK MOVED TO APPROVE WITH A REVIEW IN ONE YEAR AND THAT PARKING ON THE PROPERTY HAS TO BE AVAILABLE. Walker asked if this was an amendment to the main motion. Glick confirmed that was his intent. MOTION SECONDED BY BRYSON. Walker asked for discussion on the amendment. None noted. VOTE ON THE AMENDMENT: GOECKE YES BOOTH YES MAHURIN YES CLICK YES BRYSON YES WERNER-QUADE YES WALKER YES Planning & Zoning Commission Minutes UNANIMOUS. Page 6 May 8, 1996 Walker stated that brings up the main motion and asked if there was further discussion. Bryson asked if the petitioners have any concerns about the conditions that have been added. Walker asked if the petitioners were here and if they have any concerns on the additions. They responded no. VOTE ON THE MAIN MOTION: BOOTH YES MAHURIN YES GLICK YES BRYSON YES WERNER-QUADE YES GOECKE YES WALKER YES UNANIMOUS. e. PZ96-36-Variance-Lot 10, Block 7, Inlet View Subdivision GOECKE RECOMMENDED APPROVAL OF PZ96-36 A VARIANCE FOR LOT 10, BLOCK 7, INLET VIEW SUBDIVISION. MOTION SECONDED BY GLICK. Walker asked for additional staff comments. None noted. PUBLIC HEARING OPENED. No comments received. PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED. Walker brought item back to the Commission for discussion. Bryson stated that given the irregular shape of the lot, it's lack of depth, and apparently no comments from the adjacent lot 8 that would be most closely affected, Bryson noted he will be supporting the motion. Mahurin stated she will be voting no as she does not approve of the Commission approving these items ahead of time because they come back to haunt the Commission later. Mahurin reiterated she will vote no. Bryson commented he believed the purpose of a variance is to address these situations before they occur rather than after they occur. A variance is not appropriate after a Planning & Zoning Commission Page 7 Minutes May 8, 1996 situation has been constructed and reiterated he feels this is the appropriate procedure to follow. VOTE: MAHURIN NO BRYSON YES GOECKE YES WALKER YES GLICK YES WERNER-QUADS YES BOOTH YES ITEM PASSED. f. PZ96-37-Conditional Use Permit-Gov't Lot 5, Section 11, T5N, R111W, S.M. GOECKE RECOMMENDED APPROVAL OF PZ96-37. MOTION SECONDED BY WERNER-QUADS. Walker asked if additional staff comment. La Shot noted nothing additional. PUBLIC HEARING OPENED. No comment received. .PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED. Walker brought item back to the Commission for discussion. Bryson stated the item is listed as being on Government Lot 5 and asked if this is the remaining portion of that lot? Bryson noted that it appeared on a map that the whole subdivision came out of that government lot. La Shot stated it could be and he thinks there has been further resubdivision of that lot. Bryson asked if this is a tract that is proposed for a subdivision also. La Shot stated the applicant is at the meeting but they indicated to him that they were planning to leave it as one large tract. Mahurin asked if there is information on the size of the lodge, how many overnight clients they intend to have, and how many rooms will be rented out. Lowe stated he planned on building his home and five rooms for rent. Walker asked Lowe to come forward and sign in. Bryan Lowe-Lowe stated he planned on building his home and five bedrooms for rent adding that he doesn't want to be limited to that. Lowe stated he plans to only lodge ten people in the proposed building. Lowe reiterated he did not want to be limited to ten people but perhaps 18 in the future. Planning & Zoning Commission Page 8 Minutes May 8, 1996 Mahurin asked the square footage of the proposed lodge? Lowe stated it has not been laid out yet and does not plan to build until the fall. Lowe estimated 4,000 to 5,000 square feet. Lowe added it will be a custom building with DEC approved sewer and water. Lowe stated a designer is coming in to look at the land. The building will be set back in the trees as far as possible and it will be built first class. Mahurin questioned about the planned sewer and water. Lowe stated it will be DEC approved. Mahurin asked how many bathrooms they would be planning for. Lowe stated DEC doesn't care how many bathrooms they have but he plans on having a bathroom in every room that is rented. Mahurin clarified that by sewer and water he was referring to septic. Bryson asked Lowe if he had ever considered requesting a rezone of that entire area. Bryson commented that Lowe appears to be the person with the greatest activity in the area. Bryson noted that the city has the recreational river-oriented recreational zone. Lowe responded he didn't know that could be done but would be interested. Bryson stated the intent is to provide for recreationaUcommercial activities that are river oriented adding that virtually everything going on at Angler's Angers is appropriate. Lowe asked the procedures to do that. Bryson stated he should contact the city. Bryson stated it is a zone that he didn't think any facility had ever been put in it but the intent was to address the Angler's Acres area. Lowe stated he appreciated the information and would check into it. Glick asked how many guides they intended to work out of the building. Lowe stated that there will not be any guides operating out of the building because there is no access to the river although there is 1000 feet of river front. Lowe stated he believed it was designated wetlands. Lowe stated it will basically be for lodging. Lowe advised he currently has two properties up for sale and plans on consolidating into this place instead of being spread out. The plan is to set the lodge back for privacy. Booth asked La Shot if any public comment had been received. La Shot stated there was one letter in the packet. Walker asked Lowe about his statement about not running any guides out of the building. Lowe stated it will be hard to run guides from a place without water access. Walker was questioning the permit requesting lodging and guide business. Lowe stated he had put that in because part of his guide business will be conducted there adding that if he has clients staying there he will be collecting money there. Lowe commented he wanted to make sure he is covered under the permit. Walker stated potentially they will be conducting some guide business in the facility. Lowe stated the guide business will be limited to money and stuff like that. Goecke stated that Lowe realistically meant by guide business is guide booking business and Lowe agreed. Planning & Zoning Commission Page 9 Minutes May 8, 1996 Werner-Quade asked if Lowe had stated how many rooms would be in the building or how many rooms it would be limited to? Lowe stated he plans on building 5 rooms to rent but doesn't want to be limited to that. Lowe added that ten years in the future, noting they were talking about 25 acres, he may want to add an extra cabin or two reiterating that he doesn't want to be limited. Lowe added that there are other permits wherein they are allowed to lodge 18 people. Lowe commented he is only asking for ten now and has a property 25 times larger than anyone elses. Lowe stated he isn't saying he wants 25 times 18 but is saying he doesn't want to be limited to ten people. Lowe commented that he has hired an engineer and everything will be done right and first class. Lowe added that right across the street from him that pretty much everyone there has Conditional Use Permits. Mahurin asked for a clarification to Lowe's statement that there is a business that can lodge up to 18 people and wanted to know which one it was. Lowe responded Will Jahrig's CUP say 18 people on one acre. Lowe added that there are a lot of other CUP's like one with a triplex on it that doesn't say the number of people and others that don't say the number of people. Booth asked if Lowe would be planning on storing the boats on the property. Lowe stated he doubted it as he has another property, Lot 6, and that is where he stores the boats now. Lowe stated he wants to keep all the trees he can and doesn't need to leave the boats there. Mahurin commented she is uncomfortable and doesn't feel she has enough information. Mahurin stated she supports the concept and the businesses that are going in there noting she has voted yes on all of Lowe's permits that have come before the Commission. Mahurin stated she feels like she doesn't have enough specific information in her mind noting she doesn't know how big it will be. Lowe responded if he knew, he would tell them. Lowe added he hasn't priced out the building noting he is busy getting ready for his season. Lowe stated he has two properties up for sale. Some of that money will be used for building. Lowe said he would like to build a place that would cost about one-half million dollars but he couldn't do that. Mahurin stated she understood what he was saying but that she would have to vote no because she doesn't feel she has enough information. Lowe stated the building will be under 6,000 square feet. His home will be approximately 2,000 to 3,000 square feet and the other part probably 2,000 square feet and five bedrooms for rent. Mahurin stated she appreciated his comments but will still vote no even though she supports the comments. Mahurin added that probablies are not good enough for her when issuing a permit. VOTE: GLICK YES BRYSON YES WERNER-QUADE YES GOECKE YES BOOTH YES MAHURIN NO WALKER YES Planning & Zoning Commission Page 10 Minutes May 8, 1996 MOTION PASSED. 7. NEW BUSINESS: a. PZ96-30 -Home Occupational Permit -Child Care - Carlough (Continued from 4/24/96) Walker noted this was continued from the 4/24/96 meeting. GOECKE RECOMMENDED BRINGING BACK BEFORE THE COMMISSION PZ96-30 A HOME OCCUPATION PERMIT. MOTION SECONDED BY MAHURIN. Walker asked for additional staff comment. La Shot nothing in addition to the memo and that the additional information as requested had been collected. Walker asked if there was any public comment. None noted. Item brought back to the Commission for discussion, none noted VOTE: BRYSON YES WERNER-QUADE YES GOECKE YES BOOTH YES MAHURIN YES GLICK YES WALKER YES UNANIMOUS. 8. OLD BUSINESS: a. Prime Residential Zone (Christian) Walker noted that this item had been brought back at the Commission's request and would entertain a motion to put it on the table. MAHURIN MOVED TO PUT ITEM ON THE TABLE. MOTION SECONDED BY GOECKE. Walker asked for additional staff comment. La Shot stated the minutes from last meeting read that the Commission wanted this back on the agenda on May 22nd. La Shot stated administration wasn't sure if the Commission wanted a public hearing at that time on a proposed ordinance so decided to bring it back this time for additional work, if there was any, or additional comments. Planning & Zoning Commission Page 1 1 Minutes May 8, 1996 Mahurin stated that Mr. Christian and several of the petitioners have come before P&Z five or six times and have been working on this over a year. Mahurin stated she feels they have asked for this and have been diligent in providing information, worked with the Commission, answered questions and thus would like to have a public hearing at the next meeting. Mahurin stated she would move to have a public hearing to gather input from the community and to see if there really is an interest from the public to establish this type of a zone. Walker asked that any motions be held until there are enough items decided to include in all in one motion. Mahurin agreed and withdrew motion. Bryson stated as he envisioned this, this would be a zone in which it might be appropriate to incorporate existing areas zoned RS-1 or RS-2 among others. As such and given they are all suburban residential, medium density situations, Bryson stated he felt it would be appropriate that it not be considered spot zoning if a person attempted to incorporate an existing lot or five lots or whatever the community wanted into this zone if they met the conditions. Bryson stated he didn't know how much leeway the zoning ordinance has with that regard but would feel that there be some definition that an area that is zoned residentially already, whether RS-1 or RS-2, if the RP zone is adopted, not have to undergo the test of spot zoning to be applied to an area. Walker asked Bryson the area he was discussing, noting he had said one lot or five lots, Walker asked if he was indicating that in the middle of a current suburban residential area, that you would consider taking one 8,000 square foot lot and zoning that RS-2 and not considering that spot zoning. Bryson stated that virtually all of the medium density lots in the city are zoned RS at this time. Continuing, stated that if an area in the city, for example Toyon Street, had five lot owners which were reasonably contiguous petition to have the conditions presently listed as RP applied to their property, that that not be considered spot zoning. Walker asked if he was putting a minimum acreage on it. Bryson stated he would not be supporting any rezone that effectively deviated from the lots that were being rezoned in the area. Bryson stated that in that regard he is probably at odds with the petitioners. Glick stated he concurs with Bryson that perhaps instead of creating a new RP zone, that the RS-2 zone which isn't used be modified and that the items discussed be moved into that zone. Glick stated there wouldn't be many changes except like two family dwelling would be an N. Glick added he felt they should put a square footage on it. Walker asked for suggestion. Glick stated 10,000 per lot. Glick added he doesn't think they want to get too strict feeling some things should be under covenants and if the owners don't follow the covenants they may need to create an association to make the people adhere to the covenants. Glick commented it was not up to the city to enforce those items. Glick stated he felt that what they had gone through on the chart was appropriate but they shouldn't add some of the other things that were wanted. Glick Planning & Zoning Commission Page 12 Minutes May 8, 1996 stated that they probably wouldn't fit into areas that wanted to be changed to the zone and secondly a lot of items should be covenants. Goecke stated what he has had in mind for the RP zone was not trying to change anything in existence. Goecke added he has spoken to a builder in the area who thought the zone merited some thought so that if a builder that wants to build a "more upscale" area they could have this designation available to a new development. Walker stated as he understands it from carefully reviewing past packets, and the information, there is a petition requesting that this body review, analyze and discuss this subject. Walker stated a number of public comment sessions have been held. Walker stated that as yet he has not seen people come forward that actually qualify under this zone and no developers have came forward asking for more restrictive zoning. Walker stated that he is concerned that if they create a zone and it is not used or brought forward, and questioned if it will be forced on adjacent properties perhaps even against property owner's wills. Walker stated that was a strong concern and inasmuch he will not support the creation of this zone. Walker stated they could make some adjustments to the RS-2 zone. Then, if any property owners in groups, noting he does not support zoning, wish to bring something forward and zone their properties as RS-2 to create an area without multiple family dwellings, he would support that. Walker noted he does not support the creation of a very prohibitive zone that the city has not seen one developer request. Christian asked if Walker would take comment from the floor. Walker stated not yet and that the Commission had taken several hours of comments on this item. Bryson stated when the Commission receives testimony what he sees is a very large group of people who are very concerned about their homes. But the argument for creating the zone is to apply it to an area that is not yet platted. Bryson stated to him those two situations don't mesh. Bryson stated he sees the greatest problem is people worried about multi-family homes and all they have to oppose these with is a covenant situation. Bryson stated he feels if the RS zone were modified to address that situation that is about as close as they could come to affecting the majority of people who were petitioning whose prime interest is the home they have. The stated intent of this zone is to be applied to someone elses property and not on their property. Bryson stated he is uncomfortable with that. Mahurin said she sees this as a positive step noting initially it was a reactionary response to protect their homes. However, it is almost a year and a half later and because their homes were threatened, they see that there is a need within the city. Mahurin stated she tends to agree with that. Mahurin added she agrees with the comments about spot zoning and would not approve of that. Mahurin stated she agrees with Mr. Goecke's comments that there should be a zone of this nature if anyone wishes to do zone land using the zoning. Mahurin stated she takes this as a proactive step for Planning & Zoning Commission Page 13 Minutes May 8, 1996 the City. Mahurin commented that an ultimate compromise if she had to do it would be to modify the RS-2 to incorporate some of these requirements. At this point, Mahurin stated she would like to stand by her original motion and open it to public testimony noting they should see what the response is in a public hearing. If there is not a positive response, the Commission still can vote no. Mahurin reiterated she felt they owed the public a hearing. Glick asked if they have a public hearing if she is recommending that it be on what is in the draft, or changes to the draft, or as it is? Mahurin stated she was proposing it be over the material as it was in the draft noting she thought they had reached consensus. Glick asked including the square footage. Mahurin stated she thought they had reached an agreement and this was the final document. Glick stated he thought so too except for the square footage and didn't feel there was a consensus. Mahurin stated since she hadn't heard any negative response that is part of her original motion at this point. Walker stated it was brought before the Commission as a discussion item and so it is being discussed. Walker commented he would like to have open discussion among the members and hear from everyone because if it is going to be brought forward, it definitely needs items like square footage clarified. Walker stated he understands she was favoring the 15,000. Mahurin stated that in response she assumed he was back to the motion as she thought that he had gone through discussion and thought procedurally she felt he was to the motion. Mahurin noted she didn't realize they were still at the discussion and she could wait for the motion. Walker stated there had not been a second. Walker commented that he felt square footage should be batted back and forth noting there had been a suggestion of 15,000 and one of 10,000 and hoped they could reach a consensus or a middle ground. Goecke asked about 12,500. Booth stated they had asked for developmental costs and looking at the bottom line those costs are far higher than he expected to see. Booth added he felt those costs were prohibitive and thinks that some adjustments to property sizes need to be done to make this a realistic zone. Booth added he agrees with Ms. Mahurin that it needs to be opened for public comment. Walker asked if he had a recommendation on lot size and Booth responded no. Werner-Quade stated she felt the same as Booth did when looking at all the numbers and it seemed prohibitive for a developer to embark on a project in an area with this zoning. This made her feel that perhaps they should shift over and look into the residential zone that is not being used, but understands that the petitioners don't want to make a lot of compromises. Werner-Quade stated she is not comfortable with the prime residential the way it is with these costs and restrictions. Werner-Quade added she didn't know what they could do to alter the residential zone (RS-2) but her Planning & Zoning Commission Page 14 Minutes May 8, 1996 immediate feeling would be to try that. Werner-Quade noted she is not opposed to a public hearing. MAHURIN MOVED THAT A WELL ADVERTISED PUBLIC HEARING BE HELD AT THE NEXT P&Z MEETING ON THIS- PROPOSAL AS SUBMITTED. MOTION SECONDED BY GOECKE. La Shot asked for any specific comments the Commission may have as to any changes as far as the draft regarding square footage, uses, etc. With regards to advertising, since there isn't an area defined for the proposed zone, there will not be individual notices mailed. There will be an ad in the newspaper and it will be posted in three public places. La Shot stated he was not sure how to go about an article in the paper. Smalley asked if this body would be willing to entertain letters to developers in the area that build. Smalley stated he felt input from developers might be important. Smalley added you are talking potentially about a lot of other land although this is not assigned to a specific area but it could be. Walker stated he felt that was an excellent suggestion. Bryson stated that the motion as proposed with a 15,000 square feet lot size, will basically be custom home construction. Bryson noting he is not privy to the number of custom homes in this range that are constructed each year but noted you could probably count them on one hand. Bryson stated his other concern is that there have been very loyal attendance from the residents in Woodland and Birch Drive areas. This zone as proposed would only affect 4-5 percent of the lots in Woodland Subdivision and probably not be applied to a situation where a large property owner owned the property other than the petitioner. Bryson stated he didn't know that this is what the majority of the people who are testifying expect. They are looking for protection of their own. Walker asked if Bryson wished to make an amendment. Bryson stated not at this time but he would allow it to go to public hearing and would make comments at that time. Walker stated there were people present who had asked to speak and he would like the Commission to indulge him and allow them to do so noting this was not a public hearing. Walker noted there is a motion before the Commission to have a public hearing on the RP zone. Walker stated he would ask that those persons who wish to come up and speak be brief as this is not a scheduled public hearing and to direct their comments toward the motion. Michael Christian, 613 Maple-Christian stated it is his name on the proposal. Christian stated he would like to comment on a couple items from the discussion. First, Christian stated it was mentioned that there had been many hours of public hearings or testimony and that did not happen. Mainly, Christian stated he was talking and that was because this was in rough draft form and hadn't gotten to the public hearing Planning & Zoning Commission Page 15 Minutes May 8, 1996 process. Christian said hopefully they will be now. Second, Christian stated they have always given the indication they were willing to negotiate or compromise or come to some conclusion noting he has said that every time he has spoken and yet people still get the impression they are steadfast on a specific item. Christian said that is not true. Christian said he has mentioned that he is willing to work with an RS-2 or RS-1 as an appropriate form to the prime zone. In fact, RS-1 is more closely related to what they intended because it has the lot size of 12,500 already whereas RS-2 has a 7200. Christian said if they could think in those terms and perhaps speak to each item. One last thing, is that some people were saying that most of these items were aimed at or designed as covenants rather than zone items and the only one he would put in that category would be the tree issue with the idea as far as keeping mature trees. As far as paved streets, underground utilities, sewer and water, those things are more code than covenants. Barb Christian, 613 Maple-Stated she wanted to express that Ms. Mahurin has a clear grasp of what they are trying to do in her estimation. Christian stated they saw that something wasn't working and that it was threatening some people's property and wanted to see if there could be a new zone established to prevent similar problems in the future. Christian stated she feels bad that this is seen as an effort of Woodland Subdivision dwellers to protect themselves and devil may care about anyone else. Christian stated from her standpoint, maybe because she has been a teacher for 25 years, when something goes wrong she tries to think of a way to do it better next time. Christian stated this was proactive on her part. Walker asked if any further discussion. None noted. VOTE: WERNER-QUADE YES GOECKE YES BOOTH YES MAHURIN YES GLICK YES BRYSON YES WALKER YES MOTION PASSED. Walker noted a public hearing will be held on the item as submitted. b. Purchase or trade of Richka Park Property for Airport Buffer Zone (Discussion) Chairman Walker advised this is a discussion item. Mahurin noted this item was on the agenda as result of a motion she made at the last meeting. Mahurin recognized the Airport Comprehensive Plan being developed that could take this topic into consideration. However, because this property is being developed or had started to be developed but is now in a holding pattern, Mahurin Planning & Zoning Commission Page 16 Minutes May 8, 1996 noted she felt it important for the Commission to discuss a recommendation to City Council that they pursue purchase or trade of this property because it is the only buffer. Mahurin stated the trees existing in this area between the residences and the airport are a buffer for noise pollution. Mahurin stated she felt the Commission needed to respond to the public who has come before the group and added that she felt this was one way the Commission could do it. Mahurin reiterated she understood there is an Airport Plan in place adding that she felt it would take too long otherwise she would be willing to wait for that. Mahurin stated she would hope they could discuss, before any motions were made, that the Commission could ultimately request City Council take action on this. Walker asked for Commission comments. Councilman Smalley stated that Council had discussed this briefly at the Council level. Smalley added it was not this issue but the proposed purchase from other previous discussions at past Planning & Zoning meetings. Smalley asked if this had been presented to the Airport Commission for their thoughts adding they deal with airport matters and they may want to have some input in this. Smalley recommended that it go to the Airport Commission before it be sent to Council adding that is the first thing Council will ask. Walker advised Councilman Smalley that the information was in the Airport Commission packet for tomorrow's meeting as an information item. Smalley noted that one concern that Council members have expressed is the lack of developmental or undeveloped lots (residential) within the city. Smalley noted that as Mr. Bryson had pointed out on custom made homes that are designed on specific size lots, you probably could count those on one hand. Smalley stated that with developmental lots the city is "kind of in a crisis as far as the numbers of lots for building. Smalley stated the city has a great deal of lots that are tied up in a law suit but nothing can be done with them adding they are on paved streets with water and sewer. Smalley noted that depending upon the resolution of that conflict, it could be an additional ten years before any kind of title or deed can be issued on those properties. Smalley commented these are general thoughts adding that potentially the city might be having it's hands on a great deal of developable properties. Smalley stated the city does not wish to be in the real estate business for housing but due to circumstances the city may be. Smalley stated at the last Council meeting they took action to identify lots within the city that have been foreclosed on that the city has had for several years. These lots have been put up for auction but no bids have been received. Smalley stated they are going to put "For Sale" signs on them and see what business is generated. Smalley stated he felt this was something worthy of discussing and would welcome discussion at this level with public hearings and then have it sent on to Council. Mahurin stated that in response to Councilman Smalley's negative comments, Mahurin stated she didn't envision this property, if the city should purchase it or trade for it, as ~ being on the market to be developed. Mahurin stated she viewed it as a conservation zone to be used strictly as an airport buffer. Mahurin stated she didn't think it would Planning & Zoning Commission Minutes Page 17 May 8, 1996 be something that the city would be stuck with adding she would like the record to reflect this when it goes to Council. Goecke stated he feels he understands what the people are wanting to do and why. Goecke noted he has a problem with the city owning a whole bunch of property. Goecke stated he does not know why the city would want to own this property and then just leave it there. Goecke added he doesn't know why the Borough wants to have property, or the state, or the federal government. Goecke stated that property, in his view, should be in public or private hands where it can be put on the tax rolls and everyone derive some good from it. Goecke stated that the city owning a lot of land is not a benefit to anyone. Goecke reiterated he feels he knows and understands what the residents are requesting but has a problem with any government entity owning large tracts of land that could be in private hands. Walker asked for any other discussion. None noted. Walker asked if the Commission wished to bring forward any motions. MAHURIN MOVED THAT A REQUEST BE FORWARDED TO THE CITY COUNCIL THAT THEY PURSUE EITHER PURCHASE OR TRADE OF THE PROPERTY TO BE USED AS A DESIGNATED CONSERVATION ZONE AS AN AIRPORT BUFFER. Goecke asked if he could ask a question and Walker allowed through the Chair. Goecke stated he would like to know if the Commission is not being premature with the motion until something is heard from the Airport Commission. Walker asked if Goecke was wishing to postpone the motion until the Airport Commission is heard from. Goecke stated he would feel more comfortable proceeding that way. Walker noted there was not a second on the motion. Walker asked for a second on the motion. No second. MAHURIN MOVED THAT THIS ITEM BE BROUGHT BACK UNDER OLD BUSINESS AT THE NEXT PLANNING AND ZONING MEETING WITH A REPORT FROM THE AIRPORT COMMISSION AS TO THEIR DIRECTION ON THIS ISSUE. MOTION SECONDED BY GLICK. Walker asked the Commission to indulge him as there were a number of people in the audience that may wish to speak to the item. Walker asked that the Commission allow them to speak. Walker asked if anyone disagreed. Walker noted there is a motion before the Commission to bring the item back for further discussion at which time they would have the Airport Commission's input and perhaps more information. Walker stated he had an indication that there were one or Planning & Zoning Commission Page 18 Minutes May 8, 1996 } more persons wishing to speak to this item. Walker advised them to come forward and state their name for the record and sign in. GEORGE SILIDES, 508 ASH-Silides stated he had spoken to the Commission before on this issue and other related issues. Silides stated he was asking that his testimony be accepted in addition for consideration. (Silides read from a letter he later provided to the Commission.) "It has been said before this commission that, An owner has the right to develop his property as he sees fit, including clearcutting. To that statement I must say, "Maybe." I say, Maybe because courts have held that a property owner can be constrained in his development if such development will diminish the value of adjacent property, adversely affect the quality of life or other property holders, or if environmental damage ensues from the proposed development. Property owners in Woodland fear that all three of the above conditions will stem from the development of property lying between Woodland and the Kenai Airport." "Having said that, I agree that Mr. Hall, the person proposing the development of Richka Estates, has the right to profit from his investment. After all, the property was available for sale to any person or entity, including the City of Kenai. In fact, (Silides added comment that this has been a bone of contention) it was widely circulated to purchasers of property in Woodland that the property now planned for development was the City's "Greenbelt," and not subject to development. A good example of "Buyer Beware." "They City of Kenai can protect both the residential and development interests involved, and it self from further complaint of noise from its airport traffic, by leaving the land between Woodland and the airport in its historic use. It can do so by either buying the property in question, or by trading other land of equal or greater value. We both urge such intervention by the City of Kenai in this matter." Silides added a comment noting it was for Mr. Goecke's benefit. Silides stated he understood his comment that he doesn't like the government owning a lot of property sitting around doing nothing. Silides stated this property would not be doing nothing, it would be acting as a buffer noting it has historically acted as a buffer. Silides noted he wanted to make that distinction that it is not doing nothing adding that is his opinion. MICHAEL CHRISTIAN-Noted he would like to make comments on comments that have been made. The idea that there are no lots available in Kenai or very few is hard to swallow when looking at how much money city tax payers, including himself and others in the audience, have put into the paving and sewer and water connections on First through Fourth Avenues. Christian noted a lot of money had been spent and there are a lot of lots there that can be developed. Christian added they all spent a lot Planning & Zoning Commission Page 19 Minutes May 8, 1996 of money on Inlet Woods and that money is sitting there. Now, Christian stated they are asking someone to please go in and develop this new area which will not have city water or sewer or other things that will have to be put in there. Christian noted the developer does not seem to intend to put them in meaning that later on the city will have to go back in and pave and put in sewer and water and it will be a tax burden on the tax payers to allow that development to go on as proposed. The idea that the city not being in the business of promoting land doesn't seem to be accurate since the city has been involved in all these projects in the past. Christian stated they would like to look at this as a conservation zone as Ms. Mahurin proposed. Christian stated there are conservation zones along Richka Creek from Fourth Avenue to the Inlet. Christian stated he didn't see any problem extending that up Richka Creek and including that wooded area which has been providing Woodland, Inlet Woods, and any new development with the type of protection they are looking for. ALAN POINTER, 509 ASH-Pointer stated he felt it would be a wise idea if possible for the city to pickup the property as a buffer zone. Pointer noted he agreed with Mr. Goecke and that a lot of government bodies own too much property. However, the city will be faced with, if everyone has their wishes come true, that Kenai will continue to grow. Pointer stated that many of the discussions that have gone on over the past year surround the activity at the airport. Pointer stated that everyone says they want the planes to come in because it represents revenue and it does. Pointer stated if the city continues to grow, the airport is going to get more active. If the airport gets more active, a buffer zone will be needed more in the future than is needed now. Pointer asked if the city would prefer to buy the property after it has been developed when they have to buy it with the houses on it because people have had enough of the noise and the airport needs to expand. Or, does the city want to look at the future now and address it by picking up the property undeveloped and not have to provide recompense for people who developed the property. Pointer stated that is the issue and that is the issue that is trying to be reached now. JANICE RODES-Rodes noted she usually likes to restrict herself to talking about things that she has researched, but in this case will stick her neck out. Rodes stated that when she first found out about the developer's plans, they included a road which would connect to Birch Street. Rodes stated she lives on Birch Street. At the time they bought their property on Birch Street, it was a gravel road. Rodes noted she didn't mind when it was paved even though the traffic picked up. Rodes stated she doesn't have any small children at home but that is not true of her neighbors. The idea of increased traffic on the street appalled her. Rodes noted her confidence factor was low when she saw some of the things that were happening and was told that the permits weren't in place. Rodes stated she had this information second hand but would love for someone to tell her that there was no chance that there would be a road connecting with Birch Street. Planning & Zoning Commission Page 20 Minutes May 8, 1996 Walker asked La Shot to respond and explain the plat that was approved by the borough. La Shot stated that at this point the preliminary plat that went before Planning and Zoning approximately a year ago has been approved by the Kenai Peninsula Borough. La Shot stated he doesn't know the status as far as what the developer intends to do at this point noting he hasn't made his intentions clear. Rodes asked if there was a road on the plat. La Shot stated there was a platted right of way on the plat. GINGER KAONA, 691 SYCAMORE CIRCLE-Kaona noted she would like to voice support for the previous speakers. Kaona stated that she felt the City of Kenai has done a good job in planning the city in the past and would hate to see her taxes go up because the city has to purchase something down the road that could be purchased now and save everyone money. Kaona drew attention to the developer who owns the particular property and asked the Commission to look on Poplar (the street down from Sycamore) noting that the last three houses that were built do not even have a bush. Kaona stated that her fear is the buffer zone on Birch, if the developer develops that property like the property on Poplar, it will increase the noise. Kaona stated she would like to see the city purchase or trade that property. GEORGE NAVARRE, 600 MAPLE-Navarre noted he had missed most of the meeting and may repeat something. Navarre stated he believed they were talking about quality of life which should be very important to each one us. Navarre stated he wakes up almost every morning in the wintertime because the air is brisker and sounds travel faster and longer to the sound of roaring motors about 6 a.m. In the summertime, Navarre stated he goes to sleep with the sound of roaring motors about 11 p.m. because somebody comes down and decides to make practice landings. Navarre stated he doesn't like the practice landings about but it happens. Navarre stated he is not worrying about his kids but other kids might have a problem. Navarre stated his hearing is bad noting that when he was young he lived about a mile from a drop forge (?) and believes this is what impaired his hearing. Navarre stated he believes that the quality of the life for the young people living in the area will be impaired by the sound of the roaring motors in the morning, in the afternoon, and the evenings at different times of the year. Navarre stated he is not sure if it is a big buffer zone but it does help. Every little bit helps. Navarre commented you find that out when you look at charities. If somebody gives $5 and another gives $1, pretty soon you have a total you can do something with. Navarre stated he believes this buffer zone being talked about is a needed thing for the city for the future so you won't get future complaints. Navarre commented that people who live here can say we have a good place to live. LISA SKINNER, 608 MAPLE-Skinner stated they have moved from out North into Kenai for the fact that they love the conveniences. Skinner stated she loves the dog leash laws noting that out north there is nothing for laws. Skinner stated she feels the city should start looking at buffer zones for the future if they plan on the city growing and look to building the city outward instead of in toward the airport. Skinner stated Planning & Zoning Commission Minutes Page 21 May 8, 1996 that many of the communities outside have grown enormous and total airports are being moved out of town because of the noise pollution. Many subdivisions in these cities have been built up to the airport and now they have big planes coming in. Now many of the airports are out of town and the city may want to look at ahead. Skinner commented like the gentleman said, buy now when it is undeveloped and save some money in the future. Eventually, if the city grows, you end up buying homes as in other cities or small towns in the states. BUDDY SKINNER, 608 MAPLE-Skinner noted that as a pilot he felt Kenai has one of the best flight schools in the State of Alaska, Alaska Flying Network. Skinner noted they do a left hand traffic pattern when they shoot touch and goes in practice that come right over Woodland all the time. As that increases, it will increase the noise. Skinner commented it is a great flight school and more people will come down for it. Skinner stated that in Soldotna they do a right hand traffic pattern to stay away from the city noting it is more unique. Skinner stated that in the summertime with float planes there is High Air Country Adventure using the facility. Skinner noted they are flying props and it is noisy and you can open your door and think they are coming right through. Skinner stated he would appreciate the city keeping it a conservation zone. SHERRY MCBRIDE, 1111 5TH AVENUE-McBride stated she lives right off Birch and is next door to every bit of this and agrees that the City should buy the property. She sees moose, caribou, and other wildlife and added there are blue jays nesting in the area. If you take out all of the woods, all of the animals will leave. There has already been the float plane basin put in. McBride stated she lived in Anchorage for two years before they moved to Kenai living next to the Air Force base. McBride noted the AWACS would take off at 1 a.m. and sounded like cannons. McBride stated they moved back to Kenai for the peace and quiet for their children. When the planes take off now, they sound like mosquitoes after living in Anchorage. McBride stated it is quiet and peaceful but if you take out all of the trees, she will start hearing more of these planes. McBride stated she is getting used to the float plane traffic already after two years. McBride noted her husband was born and raised here less the three years they were in Anchorage. Her in-laws put in Birch all the way back building the first home in there. McBride stated the city needs to purchase or trade the property to keep the property as it is. It is beautiful woods and the animals love it. McBride stated she walks her three year old through there where they have done the clearing and there are beautiful marsh lands. A lot of caribou come through and a lot of moose, they breed in the area and have their babies. McBride stated she can every year count on a cow and at least two calves coming through the yard like saying hi and to let her know they are still there. McBride stated she is afraid if they take it out there will never be anything like it again. McBride stated her three year old thinks moose are the neatest thing in the world and to him are like a big horse that you can't touch. McBride stated that in Anchorage he never got to know what a moose was until they returned to Kenai. McBride noted her husband and two older children were born at this house. McBride noted she would like to keep it the way it is. McBride commented she loves the Planning & Zoning Commission Page 22 Minutes May 8, 1996 convenience of being in town. Her kids can walk up to the Park on Fourth through their property. McBride stated that once everything starts changing she will have to leave her kids locked in the house or on the property. McBride stated the land is beautiful and would like them to leave what the property looks like. McBride stated that they had just gone for a long walk Saturday through the area and there is lots of garbage being dumped back there and noted she is still chasing kids off. McBride stated they never had this problem until last year when the man opened up the road and got the clearing in there and now they can't keep anyone out. McBride reiterated she thinks the city needs to purchase or trade the property and keep it the way it is. McBride noted some might not think it is nice to buy property, but not to look at it as property, look at it as a buffer zone, a place for the wildlife. McBride commented that once you take the trees out you won't see the wildlife anymore. GUS RODES, 207 BIRCH STREET-Rodes commented that when you talk about noise from the airport you have to realize that engines on planes are getting bigger. Now engines on the 777 are 95,000 pounds thrust, a few years ago a 747 with 39,000 pound thrust engines took a 2.5 ton truck that was 200 yards behind it and rolled it down the runway like a tin ball. Rodes noted he knew one of the people who were in it at the time. Rodes stated that is a lot of power and noise. As the engines increase, the noise will increase. There is practically nothing you can do to stop the aircraft from landing and taking off from the airport. Bodes noted the only thing you can do is put up a noise buffer zone and that is what this is. Rodes noted he would like to add that when he was campaigning last year, the number one problem that people wanted to solve was the high speed and the number of cars going down Birch Street. They were against the subdivision unless there was an exit on 5th Avenue on Float Plane Road so the traffic wouldn't come down Birch Street. The second complaint was wondering if there was anyway to cut off access to Forest Lane so the traffic would not move from that over to Birch Street. Rodes stated he felt purchase of this property as a buffer zone is exactly what is needed. CHRIS MCBRIDE, 1111 5TH AVENUE-McBride noted that he and his friends go in the area to play and if the cars go through they will have to stay in the yard and won't be able to go out there. McBride added he has a dog that is almost a year old and if they put in that road they will have to move her from where she's at to a different place. In the morning when he goes to school, it is really hard enough already to get to the bus stop and if the city puts in all these cars it will make it harder for him to get there. Chairman Walker thanked the audience for their comments noting if the motion does pass he would like the comments sent to council adding he felt that Councilman Smalley would pass the information to council. Walker brought the item back for discussion. Planning & Zoning Commission Page 23 Minutes May 8, 1996 Werner-Quade asked the Commission to look at the Comprehensive Plan, the updated version, on page 41. Werner-Quade stated it notes future airport improvements, 5 to 10 year time line. Number 3 expand, Number 4 develop, Number 5 extend, Number 6 possible 500 foot extension, Number 7 extend, extend the length of the runway. Going back to Number 4, develop the west side of the water taxi way parking area, the float plane facility for additional parking slips and lots. Werner-Quade commented that is what the airport's future includes. Werner-Quade asked the group to look at Page 17, the potential for growth in Kenai under existing land use. "Much of the subdivided land in Kenai is still vacant and there are approximately 2000 acres of additional, private land which is developable but has not been subdivided. All neighborhoods have land which is either platted or could be platted for new residential or community commercial development. Werner-Quade noted that her point is that there seems to be a lot of other available land noting that the airport is planning on expanding. There is a small buffer zone now that the city has the potential to use and to keep and Werner- Quade stated her recommendation is that council make any kind of arrangements possible to secure the land. Mahurin asked Chairman Walker to share with the audience the time and place for the Airport Commission meeting tomorrow night so they could share their comments since Planning and Zoning's motion does pertain to that recommendation. Walker advised the Airport Commission meeting would be at 7 p.m. in council chambers. Bryson noted he would be abstaining due to business conflict with the owner. Goecke noted this may be taken wrong but he needed to say it. Goecke stated he doesn't necessary disagree with what has been said but development is going to go to the airport. Goecke stated Planning & Zoning can make a recommendation to council to purchase the property and that is good for now. But, at some point in time, Goecke stated he couldn't help but believe that something will happen and development will go to the airport. A prime example is, and Goecke noted one of the speakers may have been alluding to, is Denver building a new airport 20 miles east of Aurora. When they built Stapleton, Denver wasn't close. But, people build to the airport. Development happens to the airport. Goecke commented that Mr. Skinner alluded to the fact of flight path on touch and goes with a flight school. Goecke noted he thought the FAA could control the route the pilots take. Goecke stated he thought they could request that the turn be larger than out and an immediate 90 back over Woodland to alleviate part of that problem. Goecke stated he hoped that the people in the audience don't take this as his being against what they are trying to do noting he was not. Goecke stated he had lived in that area for two years and understands the airport noise especially this time of year coming off the float plane basin the first few time. It can shake you and you wonder what is going on. Goecke noted these were comments that he had to make because of his feelings. Planning & Zoning Commission Page 24 Minutes May 8, 1996 Werner-Quade commented that she had learned at a workshop in Anchorage that if there ever is any litigation they will go immediately to the city's Comprehensive Plan. The courts want to see what is in there and what provisions were made. Werner-Quade stated the city is bound to their plan essentially. Werner-Quade stated that in the couple years that she has been on the Commission she doesn't remember having as huge a turn out on any single issue with the exception of halfway housing besides the Richka Creek development. Werner-Quade stated she had listened to these people, heard them, and don't think they are particularly opposed to development for development's sake. Werner-Quade stated she thinks they have a valid reason. Werner-Quade added where she lives she gets the airport noise too. Werner-Quade noted that at one point there was a proposal to rezone and stated she felt a lot during that time and did a lot too. She got petitions not to have the ground zoned that particular way because of the feeling these people have expressed about the conservation and about the buffer. Werner-Quade commented that once you lose that buffer, you won't get it back. What little buffer there is now, Werner-Quade stated she feels should be retained. Walker commented he will be supporting this measure as he feels this is an appropriate council decision as council does have the purse, so to speak. Walker stated he felt council should look at this item. Walker stated he is not sure as it serves one specific portion of the community, and that being Woodland and the closely surrounding areas, that this could not be looked at as a local improvement district. The persons in that district could at that time look to see if they wish to financially support this purchase and that would help keep residents in other distant areas of town from having to support this burden. Walker stated the reason he makes this comment is he believes this will come up in the discussion if it is looked at very strongly as they are talking about a large quantity of money and is not too sure that the city would not want to, even in the interest of conservation zones and items like that, wish to put out that kind of money. Walker stated on a local improvement district scenario, it may be possible. Walker reiterated he will support it. Mahurin asked if airport funds could be used for a project of this type? Walker stated he has not heard of airport funds money purchasing properties but thinks it would have to be looked at in the interest of the airport and in acquiring lands for the airport and/or buffer zone. Walker stated it is possible that could be done. Walker stated he couldn't answer the question adding he thought it would be up to council whether they would choose to use airport lands and city funding because airport moneys are in fact city funding in support of one specific part of the community, or in benefit of one specific part of the community. Walker stated he thought that was a decision council should make and would support that noting the people have brought up extremely valid concerns and thinks the entire body understands and shares those Planning & Zoning Commission Minutes Page 25 May 8, 1996 concerns. Walker stated it was his opinion that this would pass and council has a definite hot football to look at. Councilman Smalley commented that Commissioner Mahurin made an important comment when she made the recommendation that this group come to the Airport Commission meeting tomorrow. Airport Commission will eventually get this testimony but there is nothing better than face-to-face comments. Smalley recommended the group go to the Airport Commission meeting. VOTE: GOECKE YES BOOTH YES MAHURIN YES GLICK' YES BRYSON ABSTAIN WERNER-QUADE YES WALKER YES PASSED-6 YES VOTES, ONE ABSTAIN. Walker thanked the audience for comments and noted the comments will be forwarded to council as well as the Airport Commission. Walker added that he was sure Councilman Smalley would do his best to bring these points forward as well. Mr. Christian asked when this would go before council. Walker stated he did not know when it would be scheduled so would have to look for public notice. 9. CODE ENFORCEMENT ITEMS: Walker asked La Shot if there were any items to report on. La Shot stated no. Walker asked for an update on the Highland Park issue. La Shot stated he had to check on it and didn't know if he had gotten rid of the cars yet. Walker stated he thought they were still there. 10. REPORTS: a. City Council Councilman Smalley commented that he felt the need to get reacquainted because it has been awhile since he has attended a meeting. Smalley reported they have been actively involved with the city budget and noted that the budget proposal will be presented at the next council meeting for introduction. Smalley stated that approximately an $8 million budget of which approximately originally $976,884 would be additional moneys from the general fund. That has been reduced to $560,000. The last four years the average has been a little over $500,000 from the general fund to support the budget. Smalley stated it has taken a lot of time and drained a lot of energy but it looks like a good budget. Planning & Zoning Commission Page 26 Minutes May 8, 1996 Walker asked if dollars were put in for the purchase of Richka Park? Smalley stated no. Walker commented there is a great concern in the public regarding the dollars being pulled from the general fund and the fund is being reduced. Smalley replied that the amount of money coming from the general fund versus the interest that is earning is just about offsetting. Smalley stated it will be slightly more again. Walker commented it is being reduced over the past five years. Walker commented he was on the council at a time when there was a lot more money. Smalley stated that wasn't correct. Walker corrected saying a lot more money coming in from other sources. Smalley reported the city had received zero dollars the last two years. Walker stated he felt one of the questions to be asked is as these dollars in the general fund start to dwindle, is the city looking at more property tax or at more user taxes. Or, has that been discussed at budget meetings. Smalley stated they had briefly discussed the reduction in moneys especially the reduction in moneys for funding projects out of Juneau. Smalley stated he won't say that zero dollars have come. Smalley noted there was a rewrite of a grant of left over from Thompson Park moneys that came to the city. There is a possibility of about one-quarter million for some small road projects for which the city has it's capital project lists. Walker commented no multi-million dollar projects. Smalley stated no and that the well moneys that they needed and had hoped for was not granted. That will also come from the city's funds and is approximately $900,000. La Shot stated that was a preliminary estimate and feels it will come in less. Smalley added the comments about the use of airport moneys is accurate in the sense that it hasn't been used in the past to do things like this. Smalley stated that one of the things the Commission and the Airport Manager will look at and perhaps bring a recommendation back to P&Z and to Council. Smalley stated that perhaps, depending on testimony, that land is needed as a buffer for protection in the future and perhaps to protect from future liability on behalf of the city and the airport. Smalley reiterated that it may be possible to use those funds but doesn't have the answer which would probably have to come from legal or the Airport manager. Smalley added that money is not in the budget for the animal control shelter. Walker asked for Smalley's comments on the offset of the general fund. Smalley stated it has been discussed briefly but no steps have been taken in that area. Walker stated he is under the assumption there will be employee increases. Smalley stated the city has 102.8 employees and in this budget there are no additional employees. Walker stated he was referring to wage increases. Smalley stated that cost of living was 2.7 and the city went with a 2.0. Walker commented that in three years the city will see like amounts and assuming that the general fund's share will become larger which means the general fund itself will dwindle unless interest rates rise considerably. Smalley stated that the interest rates have been approximately what the usage has been, give or take $24,000 to $25,000. Planning & Zoning Commission Page 27 Minutes May 8, 1996 Smalley added that a printout will be provided to council as to what the actual differences are noting it is somewhere around $550,000 to $560,000 from the original amount. Smalley reiterated it was a long, involved process. Many citizens came requesting assistance for much needed programs which benefit the citizens of the city. Funding from Juneau is being reduced and Juneau is telling them to go to their local city for assistance. Smalley stated the city looked at the list hard and felt that it was not the city's responsibility but the state's responsibility. Again, that will cause some changes in services that have been provided in the past. To continue the services, they will have to look at different revenue sources. Smalley stated it is the same for the city and it will need to look at some methods of increased revenues. Smalley commented that the City of Kenai still has one of the lowest, if not the lowest, mill rate charges in the state and the same with water and sewer rates. Smalley drew attention to the agenda and the public hearings. Smalley stated most passed unanimously. Item C3 was amended and the fee for usage was set at $.25 cents. It has been recommended at $.05 and it has previously been set at $.50. That is the rate that is charged at other public facilities and does not put the city in competition with private entity nor is the city trying to encourage people by reduced rate bringing people off the street to make copies. That hasn't happened in the past, but if the rates were reduced substantially, that could happen. Under Item C4, the Challenger Learning Center individuals selected and returned Kenai's application to approve Kenai as a potential Challenger Learning Center. The approximate cost of facility is $3.4 to $3.5 million. The Challenger Learning people from the east coast will be working with the city and the committee to secure private funding to fund the facility. Smalley stated it will be developed behind Craycroft in the area of the old "Noah" hill used to be there is 40 acres the Council set aside for educational usage. This is where the Fire Training Center sits. The center would be built on that facility between the Fire Training Center and the pond. Some schematic designs have been presented. Council will look carefully at these and work as diligently as possible to secure if not all, as much as possible, of the needed funds. The facility will be operated by the University. Goecke commented that this had started out as a million dollar center that went to approximately $3.5 million dollars. Goecke stated he has not heard a good explanation of how that happened. Smalley responded he never looked at this as a million dollar facility. It was introduced that that was the portion that the city could potentially be responsible for was $1 million dollars. The other portion would be funded by other sources of income; the other $1 million from the Challenger Learning people, corporate sponsorship, etc. Smalley stated that doesn't mean the city would be responsible for coming up with half of those fees.. The idea is to seek as much corporate funding as possible. Of the 26 existing centers, there have been some built with nothing but corporate foundation money. Goecke stated he understood that but what happened to just the Learning Center to the rest of the things that are now incorporated into it. Planning & Zoning Commission Page 28 Minutes May 8, 1996 Goecke stated he understood it started out with just the Challenger Learning Center as such but now there is a bigger entity involved in this thing with more stuff than just the Challenger Learning Center. Smalley stated that is not to his knowledge it is still the Center in size, development, etc. It encompasses a lot of different entities. It is two or three rooms, basically a similar to a facility of a mini-space camp in the sense that it has computers, simulators, flight training, etc. as if the individuals taking the courses were involved in a simulated space shuttle mission. That is what the facility is designed to be. Smalley stated to the best of his knowledge, that has not changed. Smalley stated that before Council spends any money, it will be up for public discussion. Walker asked if this may involve a million dollars, will the city see this on a referendum or will it close to a million and be able to pass it by Council vote. Smalley stated that has not been discussed or decided. Smalley stated he thinks as much funding as possible will be obtained as previously mentioned and go from there. Walker stated he understood this is based on 286 technology. Smalley stated that was not to his knowledge. Walker stated that was what he had been lead to believe. Smalley stated he would speculate that was inaccurate. Walker stated a number of other facilities are using 286 technology, according to people who have visited them. Walker stated if that is in fact the case, we will be about 6 generations old on computer technology when building a new facility. Walker noted he would have strong concerns in this regard. Walker stated if they get close to a million dollars he feels it should go to a referendum. Walker commented that when building the Bicentennial Visitors Center the city did the $800,000 thing and then came back and purchased the property as a separate item and ended up spending more than what should have been spent without going to a referendum. Walker stated since it was for the same facility but done at two separate times, a year or two apart, on two separate pieces of legislation, Walker stated he felt it was for the same facility and should have gone to a referendum. Walker reiterated he would like to see this on a referendum before the city commits to anything over $250,000 city dollars. Smalley stated he would pass it on but recommends that when it comes up that Walker draft a statement and send it to council or come and speak to council on the item. Walker added he did not believe the vast majority of the people in the community supported the expenditure at this time more that than figure ($250,000). Smalley stated he was not sure that was an accurate statement. Walker stated that was his opinion and that is why he would like to see it on a referendum because then the city would know the public's opinion. Item 6 the leases at the public dock facility were worked on. Smalley stated the docks are not aprofit-making venture from the standpoint that they don't pay for themselves. La Shot stated it was his understanding that if the capital costs are taken out each year as the city has been that it does not pay for itself The Harbor Commission will review the potential of multi-year leases and staggered leases like they used to have instead of coming back every year to see if that is in the best interest of the city. In year's past, the bidder would have to bid literally with guesstimate information and the city Planning & Zoning Commission Page 29 Minutes May 8, 1996 ~ benefited more because to maintain the leases they had to bid so much per year. If you come in year by year, it will probably be at a reduced amount. Goecke asked if the city considered or discussed the fact of putting in a decent fuel dispensary there and supplying the fuel to the fishing boats. Smalley stated the city has a fuel facility there. Goecke stated they have one pump. Smalley stated they have a fuel facility that the Harbor Commission feels is appropriate at this time. Most of the boats can purchase fuel cheaper from the cannery. Goecke stated if you are saying that if you weigh all costs, the dock is anon-income producing entity, what about talking to the canneries and putting in a couple more fuel pumps and selling the fuel through city pumps rather than the canneries. Smalley stated he felt the cannery owners would have a response to that. That maybe something that should be passed onto Harbor Commission if this body should feel that a recommendation should be sent to them. Smalley stated they don't make any money on fuel. The absorption material that has to be kept there, it is almost costing the city money to provide the service. Smalley stated that was discussed during the budget because the absorption material is so expensive. Smalley stated he didn't know if it could be expanded. La Shot stated that he hasn't heard there is a need for more pumps except during the crunch time before fishing periods, they pile up. They do sell quite a bit of fuel. La Shot stated the operational costs on a yearly basis versus the income is pretty close. It is the capital costs that come out of the budget each year for the project that was done year's ago that seem to outweigh it. La Shot stated he thought it might be time to look at fuel prices again. La Shot stated they had just leased the docks again for the year and the lease rates are not as high as they used to be during those peak fishing years. La Shot stated they expect the launch fees to go up quite a bit this year as result of the sport fishery and the dip net fishery. La Shot stated he could not say it was a big money maker. Item G discussed the dunes parking. Smalley stated there was extensive discussion on this topic. The decision was to put signs on the south side and making it a violation to drive above high tide in the grass. On Kenai Avenue at the bottom of the hill past the Care Center, Council is talking about from the old outhouse area to the mouth of the river gating it and providing an access key for those individuals who own property there if they wish to request a key from the city. Other than that it will be closed for vehicular traffic. The city will be placing log berms between the road and the dunes to prevent driving up onto the dunes. Eventually, there will be boardwalks to keep people off the dunes as much as possible. Informational signage will be put up to explain the dunes and their importance. The gate will be in operation from July 1 to the end of August. This will alleviate some of the impact from the dipnetting. There will be no parking at all in that area. The city is looking into expanding some parking further up. The state has put the city in a precarious position, thus the city is asking the state to assist the city in receiving any kind of permits that might be needed for the potential parking area where fill has been put on the hill. Planning & Zoning Commission Page 30 Minutes May 8, 1996 Walker asked if there was still a lot of fill around the airport available. Smalley stated he thought so but wasn't sure. La Shot stated there is fill but not a lot of good fill. La Shot stated he has been told to apply for a Corps permit to fill that area to the right as you go to the bottom of the road. Part of the reason is for parking and part of the reason is to expand the sewer plant within the next few years. The part closest to the sewer plant would need to be good fill. Walker asked if that was a wetlands permit that may destroy wildlife areas. La Shot stated he didn't expect it to be improved in time to do much for this year. La Shot stated they may have an answer by next spring. Smalley stated if anyone had questions on the other items on the agenda he would be glad to respond. Smalley drew attention to Items 8 and 9 as being sent up from P&Z. Walker commented that he was pleased that Council was reviewing the P&Z minutes and knew they were concerned with actions of P&Z and are very supportive of P&Z. Walker thanked Council for their support. b. Borough Planning Mr. Bryson advised there had not been a Borough Planning and Zoning meeting last Monday and thus no report. c. Administration Mr. La Shot stated the well project will go out to bid next week. The state highway project will resume on Monday. The city's dust control project will start Tuesday. La Shot stated they may have noticed the article about a land swap in the paper. La Shot stated that article may be premature and preliminary talks have been started. La Shot added he will do everything possible to get that before P&Z before it gets too far. Walker asked which lands are being proposed to be swapped. La Shot stated the city owns 2,100 acres of river wetlands. Those are the lands under discussion. Walker commented that it hadn't gone through P&Z. La Shot stated he thought the article was premature. La Shot stated it has just been preliminary talks to this point. Walker stated that would have to go as a referendum also adding that for the city to give away 2,100 acres he would hope the public would be allowed to comment. Goecke stated he had heard a troubling report that he would like clarified regarding the start up on the highway. Goecke stated that is that part of the utilities still are not moved. Goecke commented that the city and the state should be taking the utility companies to task over the fiasco that occurred last summer as result of this. Now, he understands a year later that some of those utilities are still not moved. La Shot stated that if there are major relocations to take place, it would be in the middle section and that is where the heavy excavation is yet to be done. La Shot stated he hadn't heard if there was a problem with utility relocates but advised there is a meeting tomorrow at 1:30 p.m. with everyone concerned. Walker asked where they will be starting out. La Planning & Zoning Commission Page 31 Minutes May 8, 1996 Shot stated he initially thought they would do some pavement removal and possibly some paving on the areas that they worked on last year until there a couple more weeks pass to allow the frost to leave the ground. Also, they are waiting for the schools to shut down for the year. That section would be most affecting the schools. La Shot noted there is a water line crossing at Tinker that would definitely affect the schools and Aliak. They will start again on Monday. La Shot stated they don't expect the mess they had last year. 11. PERSONS PRESENT NOT SCHEDULED: No one present. 12. INFORMATION ITEMS: a. KPB Notice of Planning Commission Action - Hakkinen Estates Preliminary Plat b. US Army Corps of Engineers Public Notice of Application for Permit Chairman Walker drew the Commission's attention to the information items in the packet. Walker noted the Corps permit and that it is an item in the Kenai River that will require some fill in some wetlands. Walker commented that perhaps this could open property behind the golf course to housing. 13. COMMISSION COMMENTS & QUESTIONS: Glick advised he will not be at the next meeting as he will be in Colorado. Werner-Quade asked what the dust control project was? La Shot stated it is the city's yearly application of CSS-1 dust control. Werner-Quade asked if it was oil. La Shot stated it is asphalt emulsion. Werner-Quade noted that she had said she would speak to the Airport Manager regarding the air traffic routes and noted she had done that and he will be getting back to P&Z and it will be available at the first meeting in June. Walker asked Smalley if it was Council's intention to utilize dust control several times this summer as needed? Smalley stated the plan is to do it two times. La Shot stated they have the same money budgeted this year as last and they did one application with a few extra applications where it was needed. Walker asked if the dollars budgeted, some $4,000, was additional. Smalley stated that was additional and he thought there was $170,000 budgeted. La Shot stated it is in the $40,000 range. Walker stated he was under the assumption that this figure would drop with the advent of the paving in the Lawton Drive area and the McKinley/Hailer/Evergreen areas. La Shot stated it did drop especially after Evergreen. La Shot stated they took off $17,000. La Shot stated they are down to about 14 miles down from 17 or 18. Planning & Zoning Commission Minutes 14. ADJOURNMENT: Meeting adjourned at approximately 9:35 p.m. Respe ully Submitted: Ma ily Kebschull Administrative Assistant Page 32 May 8, 1996