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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2009-06-03 Council Minutes Partial VerbatimITEM D -1, Ordinance No. 2403 -2009 KENAI CITY COUNCIL MEETING JUNE 3, 2009 PARTIAL VERBATIM PORTER: Seeing none, then well move onto the public hearing, or public hearings. Ordinance, council we have before us Ordinance No. 2403 -2009, substitute b, amending the Land Use Table in Kenai Municipal Code 14.22.010 to: one, Change the uses of some personal services, restaurants, dormitories, boarding houses and greenhouses, tree nurseries from principal permitted uses (P) to conditional use (C) in the limited commercial zone (LC); two, change mobile home parks from conditional use(c) to not permitted (N) in the limited commercial zone (LC); and three, change automotive repair from not permitted to conditional use (C) in the limited commercial zone which is LC; and four, add language to footnote 25 to clarify that tattoo parlors and massage therapists are personal services; and, five, require tattoo parlors and massage therapists to have a conditional use pet in the Townsite Historic Zoning District and and Limited Commercial Zone (TSH). A motion was made to enact Ordinance No. 2403 -2009, Substitute B and then action was postponed, with no time certain, at the May 20, 2009 council meeting. The motion to enact Ordinance No. 2403 -2009, Substitute B is active. So, is there anyone from the general public who would like to be heard on either Ordinance No. 2403 -2009, substitute B or there is another ordinance No. 2403 -2009, substitute C. Is there anyone from the general public who would like to be heard on that? Please come forward. WINEGARDEN: Chuck Winegarden, 309 Princess. I guess the Princess people are here tonight. Ah, on these, on this amendment, you know I understand where that's coming from and I support that as far as where it's at, Thompson Park, and, and so forth. But, you know, the reason why this all started was our rezone area and what you've just done is you've allowed an automotive repair in our rezone area and you've also allowed a beauty parlor where the school district came to the planning and zoning and said, please don't put anything over across the street that would lure students across that highway. So, if the referendum is voted down, what you've done is you've put something in our neighborhood that is unacceptable and what you've done is you've tried to solve problems just on the spot whenever, when somebody comes up, you've been solving problems without thought, without planning and it's a bad deal and you've got yourself into a, a really kind of a hitch here. So I think you really need to take a look PARTIAL VERBATIM KENAI CITY COUNCIL MEETING JUNE 3, 2009 PAGE 2 at our area and see what you want there and look at the Comprehensive Plan. Thank you. PORTER: Thank you. Any questions of Mr. Winegardener. Mr., Councilman Ross. ROSS: Mr. Winegarden, in your present zoning, isn't automotive a conditional use? WINEGARDEN: Well that's the thing is that, yeah, and so now were going to have it there no matter what, I mean... ROSS: I meant, as you're currently zoned, if the referendum fails, it's still a conditional use there, isn't it? WINEGARDEN: Yeah, but what you've done is you've set example now because there is an automotive and what are you going to say when somebody else wants to put one in because you've got one. ROSS: Okay. I, I guess my point is there's really no change to your neighborhood as far as zoning whether the referendum goes or not ifs conditional use, right? WINEGARDEN: Well, well, I guess so if that's the way you want to do it but were going to try, we've got a MAPS area now that's going to change that so I guess there's been more focus on it than there was before. PORTER: Ah, excuse me, I have a question. In the RR -1 zone, isn't a beauty shop permitted at this point with a conditional use permit? WINEGARDEN: I, I agree with you, that was, and I think that it will, this all added focus on it and now that there is focus on it, that, you know, you'll have more people looking at it, so, yeah, but were trying to change that with our MAPS PORTER: Okay. WINEGARDEN: ...but, you know, were back into again by changing things around, you know, you were going to fix it to stop that as far as people coming across the highway and so now its back where it was. There's no improvement. Thank you. PARTIAL VERBATIM KENAI CITY COUNCIL MEETING JUNE 3, 2009 PAGE 3 PORTER: Thank you. Are there anyone else from the general public who would like to be heard at this time? Okay, seeing none, bring it back to council. Pleasure of council? Councilman Eldridge. ELDRIDGE: Madam Mayor, I would move to amend Ordinance No. 23, 2403 -2009, substitute B with Ordinance No. 2403 -2009, substitute C. PORTER: Okay thank you. Is there a second? MOLLOY: Second. PORTER: It's been moved and seconded and since public hearing has already been had, council, pleasure of council, would you like to discuss, Councilman Eldridge. ELDRIDGE: Yes, ah, after the last city council meeting, the administration and I got together and we kind of agreed on a the substitute C amendment, which would include some of what administration had proposed and some of what I had proposed and it came out as, as something we could both agree on. And we did send it down to planning and zoning and it was unanimously passed by the Planning and Zoning Commission to recommend substitute C to the city council for passing. PORTER: Thank you. Is there any discussion on the motion to amend? Councilman Molloy. MOLLOY: I'm sorry, I missed that, is there already a motion to amend? PORTER: To move the substitute C... MOLLOY: Oh, okay... PORTER: To, yeah, that's what I've got here. MOLLOY: Right, yes, I, I, I do have some comments on substitute C. PORTER: Okay. MOLLOY: I just needed clarification... PORTER: That's what were talking about. PARTIAL VERBATIM KENAI CITY COUNCIL MEETING JUNE 3, 2009 PAGE 4 MOLLOY: All right. Thank you. I, I do think that Mr. Winegarden has a good point in part and part of my problem with substitute C, on page 7, has to do with the second whereas clause which brings automotive repair as a conditional use, into the limited commercial zone and, I would ah, like to suggest that we might want to handle that by a different way ah, and ah, you know, when the, just because I don't think it's consistent with the original intent of the limited commercial zone to bring the general commercial kind of industrial use into that zone. What, what, my understanding of the intent was, you have like, general commercial and you have residential and, and limited commercial is supposed to be a transition between them and the uses would be stepped down. With this property though, it's, was, you know, it was in the general commercial and developed and it was in the automotive repair use already and, and I would like to see us have a little bit more flexibility in the zone since we don't have an application from the land owner to rezone it back to general commercial and by that I mean, I, you know, more flexibility in dealing with the general commercial uses that, that existed before we imposed the limited commercial zone on it that would allow the business to continue and expand but would not bring that use into the limited commercial zone itself generally so that it wouldn't apply, you know, to the zone that we've imposed on MAPS because they're, they're, you know, they're wouldn't be there. So, so what I, what I would be interested in doing is amending this ordinance, or that would be my intent after discussion to take out the second clause and then over on page nine to amend the automotive repair part of, by ah, leaving the N and, and, and, then I would like to suggest we have planning and zoning look at this and, Mr. Graves has, has suggested two solutions. One is, is to amend the ordinance on non- conforming use to allow what is now a non conforming use because we've rezoned it, to expand, enlarge or increase in intensity under a conditional use permit process. And, so that would allow this business to, where it is, to go forward, and he has a, he has a, a second option that he, that he suggested which would be legislation that would say to the effect of, where property rezoned from general commercial to limited commercial after 2005, the restrictions obtained in subsections blah, blah, blah, of this section shall not apply. And, excuse the blah, blah, blah. But, anyway... GRAVES: It's legal terminology. MOLLOY: Yes, ...right, it's legal terminology. But, you know, I, I, I, I'm not, you know, I, I liked idea number one very much. I'm not sure that I want to jump on idea PARTIAL VERBATIM KENAI CITY COUNCIL MEETING JUNE 3, 2009 PAGE 5 number two and I certainly would want to hear from the Planning and Zoning Commission and the public on either of them. I, I think that might be a better solution than, than bringing this use inside, inside the limited commercial zone. I, I realize that its already, it's already, you know, would be allowed under RR as a conditional, I think, or something like that but I, but you know, I'm not sure that I would agree with that anyway. You know, I know that's the way it is, but, you know, so, anyway that's, that's sort of what my interest and intent is. Thank you. PORTER: Are there any comments? Councilman Ross. ROSS: I concur with almost everything Councilman Molloy said with the exception of the blah, blah, blah. I don't think that the automotive repair belongs in there as a conditional use either. When the limited commercial was put together, a lot of the neighborhood testimony, when we first worked our way through limited commercial, was that, and, and, that's what triggered it was a general commercial application out there on another property wanting to do exactly that, put the repair shop in auto sales place. I like the solutions that are proposed that would take care of the one property. But, I concur, I don't want to see, I would not want to see a N, a conditional use in the limited commercial. I think it defeats of limited commercial. I don't concur with it being in the rural residential either, but it's already there. But ah, I, I concur that, I would go along with Councilman Molloy in sending it back to P and Z with them to look at those options. PORTER: To look the, just that one particular item... ROSS: On that one paragraph, those options, yes. PORTER: Councilman Eldridge. ELDRIDGE: I think were getting the cart before the horse. Right now were moving to amend Ordinance B by placing Ordinance C in place. We have to vote on that and have that one the floor before we start trying to amend it. PORTER: Okay. That's fine. Thank you. I think that's called a point of order... ELDRIDGE: Point of order. PARTIAL VERBATIM KENAI CITY COUNCIL MEETING JUNE 3, 2009 PAGE 6 PORTER: ...to call me back to reality. Mr. Koch, do you have your hand up? KOCH: No, no, no... BOYLE: Point of order or point of information. PORTER: Thank you, Councilman... BOYLE: I'm not sure which one it is, but... PORTER: ...but you have something to say, Counci... BOYLE: ...because I would... PORTER: Councilman Boyle. BOYLE: Because I, I guess in comment in response to that I, I think for myself anyway, this conversation is helping me understand what I'm looking at and so if I'm to vote on the amendment to introduce substitute C, I'm finding that this is helping me think that through and so I disagree with Mr. Eldridge in that. I don't think were out of order. MOLLOY: Point of order. PORTER: Yes. MOLLOY: Wasn't the motion to move substitute C... PORTER: Correct... MOLLOY: ...and that was seconded. And so its on the floor. PORTER: That's correct. It's to amend it. It's to amend...Ms. Freas. ELDRIDGE: Amend B with C. BOYLE: Amend by introduction of the substitute. PARTIAL VERBATIM KENAI CITY COUNCIL MEETING JUNE 3, 2009 PAGE 7 PORTER: Okay, excuse me, for those of you in the audience, I'd like to refer to the City Attorney. This is like the first time that we've had in years, substitute a, substitute b, substitute c, so, I'm going to refer to the City Attorney. GRAVES: My reading is that, substitute C, is now on the floor. It has been moved and we are debating substitute C and Mr. Molloy's discussion was that he did not like a particular provision of substitute C and in the future, would like some action taken regarding that, but, but the debate was regarding substitute C. PORTER: Which is legal to do at this time. GRAVES: Yes. PORTER: Okay. Councilman Ross. ROSS: If we vote on this, then it comes back on the floor for a vote at which time it can be postponed or is this vote an adoption vote? FREAS: It wouldn't be an adoption vote. It would be a vote to put, put Substitute C on the floor and then, if you wanted to amend it or if you wanted to postpone it, you can still do that. ROSS: Thank you. PORTER: Councilman Boyle. BOYLE: I, I guess what I'd say is, ah, I concur with my other two council people here that I would like to see this get other attention elsewhere and for the same reason as the automotive shop, it seems to me what we have is a problem that was created with a rezone and that's something we'd like to fix, I'm gathering. But, but when this comes before me, and look at, now we've got two or three issues that, that aren't really all related. So when this, hopefully I would like to see this go back to planning and zoning, but I'd like to see it come back as three different issues. We've got, were talking about the historic zoning district, were talking about limited commercial, were talking about a specific example of an issue that has to be fixed. So, I prefer to see this broken up. I'd also like a clarification on, on what constitutes or what, to define massage therapists or a business that, that, that where massage therapists work and why this would be in there and also why we're, were targeting tattoo parlors as well in both the historic, both of those in the historic district. PARTIAL VERBATIM KENAI CITY COUNCIL MEETING JUNE 3, 2009 PAGE 8 PORTER: Why are we targeting... BOYLE: Why are we targeting those two specific... PORTER: I believe were targeting because that's what the public wanted us to do. They testified they didn't want those things limited commercial on the highway. BOYLE: I'm talking about the historic district. Were talking here, we've got a historic zoning district... PORTER: Right... BOYLE: ...and we're, this, if I understand this correctly, and maybe I don't, if this were to pass, then within the historic zoning district, tattoo parlors and massage therapists would have to have conditional permits. Do I understand that correctly? PORTER: I believe that's already been through planning and zoning though, hasn't it? Yes, that is correct. Ifs already been through planning and zoning. BOYLE: That, that may well be, but I still have to vote on this, so you know, I have to do that with, with my background and knowledge so... PORTER: Council, Councilman Smalley. SMALLEY: Thank you Madam Mayor. I, I too concur with the comments that were made by my fellow council members as far as some concerns and wanting it to go back to P and Z, but the other issue, and I'm confused as to how it can be addressed, is the expansion of a business within this and that's Anthony's Transmission, and I, and I read through, but that's one thing that needs to be considered because, especially with the economic situations the way we are and we have a wonderful thriving business there, I, I would hate to see it not to be able to perform to the capacity that it would like to be able to and that they had anticipated it would be able to. PORTER: Councilman Smalley, I agree with that and, as far as I know, no one has complained about it, so... Councilman Molloy. MOLLOY: And, and I would agree with that. That's not the intent of, of what I was doing. I was looking for a way that, that, a general commercial business like that, that's already in place, could continue to operate and even expand like they have expansion plans, but not have that use transported into the limited commercial and so PARTIAL VERBATIM KENAI CITY COUNCIL MEETING JUNE 3, 2009 PAGE 9 I was looking for a work around with the city attorney that would address that and I think he's got some good ideas here that would do that... PORTER: And you would just like to have those ideas go to P and Z and see what they think... MOLLOY: Right, and have some legislation come back that addresses that and then we take it out of this legislation and handle it in a different. PORTER: Okay...I'm sort of getting the feeling that several people would like this to go back to P and Z, so we do have a motion on the floor to amend. Would anyone like to take action on that or would you like to discuss this further. Councilman Eldridge. ELDRIDGE: Yeah, I agree with Councilman Molloy on the, some of the aspects of what the City Attorney has pointed out there seems to be a way to allow that business to expand and so on I am not in agreement in dumping the whole thing back in P and Zs lap. I don't think that's appropriate. I think there are, there are a couple of issues that may need to go back to P and Z. I don't think the whole, they've already been through this about three times now and I'm not sure they're going to come up with a whole bunch different and if we want to make some changes, we can make the changes here as council. PORTER: Councilman Smalley. SMALLEY: And, and to add to that, you know, the concept, one size fits all doesn't work with limited commercial because its a specific zone to go in, sort of as a buffer, between residential and /or business so they can work harmoniously together and not all of those areas within the city that are going to be limited commercial are going to be the same. They're going to have some dissimilarities and so, within the code, there has to be a way to reflect some changes in some limited commercial districts or zones would not necessarily be applicable to other areas and, and I, I, that's, I don't know how ticklish that is to set that up because it doesn't, one size of this zone doesn't fit all, all needs within the city. PORTER: Yes. Mr. Koch, do you want to say something? KOCH: In, in, some, you know, in some manner, the conditional use process does exactly what you describe there, is that one size doesn't fit all, so there is the opportunity and debate to see if something fits a particular and specific condition. PARTIAL VERBATIM KENAI CITY COUNCIL MEETING JUNE 3, 2009 PAGE 10 PORTER: Possibly what we could do is, if you decide to send it back, we could either vote on the portions that we agree with and send just a small section back, or send the entire, the entire ordinance back and ask them to just address one or two sections of it, so that they don't feel that we're throwing the whole thing back again. That were not in agreement on some of it. So, what's the pleasure of council? Do you want to vote on the amendment? Councilman...Clerk, please call the roll. MOORE: Mayor Porter? PORTER: Oh yes, Councilman Moore. MOORE: Thank you, yes, before we vote, it's been very confusing from this end, what we will be voting on, if you could tell me. PORTER: Were basically voting on to move forward substitute C. Am I correct? Correct. Moving to, to put substitute C on the table. FREAS: On the floor... PORTER: On the floor, excuse me. MOORE: On the floor or for adopt, to adopt the ordinance? PORTER: Not to adopt the ordinance. Just to remove B and make it C to discuss. MOORE: Okay. PORTER: Okay? Thank you. Clerk, please call the roll. FREAS: Johnson? JOHNSON: Yes. FREAS: Moore? MOORE: Yes. FREAS: Eldridge? ELDRIDGE: Yes. PARTIAL VERBATIM KENAI CITY COUNCIL MEETING JUNE 3, 2009 PAGE 11 FREAS: Ross? ROSS: Yes. FREAS: Molloy? MOLLOY: Yes. FREAS: Boyle? BOYLE: No. FREAS: Porter? PORTER: Yes. FREAS: Smalley? SMALLEY: Yes. PORTER: All right council, we now, are, now we have substitute C that we are dealing with at this point. Pleasure of council. Councilman Ross. ROSS: I am still with Councilman Molloy's idea of sending it back to P and Z, were gonna, otherwise were going to sit here and try to amend tables and everything else and I'd rather that when it comes from P and Z, it has the administration input as to the tables in front of us rather than us going through them here tonight. PORTER: Okay. Councilman Eldridge? ELDRIDGE: Ah, from what I've been hearing from Councilman Molloy, his primary concern is subparagraph, paragraph three of the ordinance, which is changing the automotive repair from not permitted to conditional use and then whatever applies to that in the whereas and in the table. So, if, if that's the primary concern as well as putting together a resolution, an ordinance to incorporate some language that the city attorney has put together to allow that, to business to expand, and put that into code, I think those are the issues that Councilman Molloy wants to see go back to P and Z to be perfected. And if those are the only issues, I would like to see us just pull that one PARTIAL VERBATIM KENAI CITY COUNCIL MEETING JUNE 3, 2009 PAGE 12 paragraph out of there, that one particular reference, and then go ahead and send that and the other issue back down to P and Z. PORTER: Any other comments from council? Councilman Molloy, Boyle. BOYLE: Yes Madam Mayor, I would, I would like to see the, see the questions divided here. It seems to me there are three different issues in here that I'd like to have planning and zoning address and if they could send them back to us separately, that would suit my needs as far as looking at this. PORTER: Just that one issue? BOYLE: Well there's, there's the issue of the, the automotive repair... PORTER: Correct... BOYLE: ...and then there's also the issues of clarifying the conditional use permit...I've gotten so confused over this... PORTER: In the historic townsite. BOYLE: ...but the historic townsite is certainly one that I would like to see separately with a little more explanation. I think were targeting businesses that already exist. PORTER: But usually they're grandfathered in, so... Councilman Molloy. MOLLOY: Thank you. You know, I, I agree with council members that you know, me personally, and administration, and the city planner, and planning and zoning, have done a lot of work on this and so has the public. You know, that being said, I'm not saying my only issue is that issue. You know, I do have some other questions regarding the table and the competing tables and things like that and Council Member Ross has pointed out that we could spend a long time dealing with that. You know, I could move to take out the automotive repair now, or, we could, or I could address that later and, and I understand what Council Member Boyle is saying. He's saying that it might make more sense if we dealt with limited commercial zone and we dealt with townsite historic district separately and I have no objection to that, so I guess my druthers would be just to postpone and send it all back to planning and zoning with these comments and, and the memo from the city attorney and, and the city attorney PARTIAL VERBATIM KENAI CITY COUNCIL MEETING JUNE 3, 2009 PAGE 13 and, you know, I may be, you know, that he could come up with some proposed legislation on these subjects for them. PORTER: Okay. MOLLOY: So, so, so I guess I'll move to postpone Substitute C and, and for it to be sent back to planning and zoning and, then it would come back to us after planning and zoning is finished with it. PORTER: Would you like to put some specific areas that you would like planning and zoning to deal with so they have more direction rather than the whole ordinance again? FREAS: Should there be a second? BOYLE: Second. PORTER: Okay, it's been moved and seconded. Now, would you want to add anything? Yeah, fine. Just send the whole thing back. Any discussion on postponement? Councilman Boyle. BOYLE: Just to add again to divide the questions, separate the zones from each other. Thank you. PORTER: Okay, thank you. Clerk, please call the roll. FREAS: Johnson? JOHNSON: Yes. FREAS: Moore? MOORE: No. FREAS: Eldridge? ELDRIDGE: No. FREAS: Ross? PARTIAL VERBATIM KENAI CITY COUNCIL MEETING JUNE 3, 2009 PAGE 14 ROSS: Yes. FREAS: Molloy? MOLLOY: Yes. FREAS: Boyle? BOYLE: Yes. FREAS: Porter? PORTER: No. FREAS: Smalley? SMALLEY: Yes. PORTER: Okay. Thank you. Council, we now... KOCH: Madam Mayor? PORTER: Yes? KOCH: If I could get, if administration could ask for some direction. I, I am, I understand back to planning and zoning. How about the division of this into three different pieces of legislation. Is that the body's desire. There wasn't any disagreement on the part of anyone from Counselor Boyle's suggestion, but I, I didn't see a lot of people, you know, a lot of people saying yes either. So, it, it doesn't matter to administration, we just want to do it the way you guys want us to do it. PORTER: Councilman Molloy. MOLLOY: I don't think two, three would be necessary, you know, I mean, we're just talking about a limited commercial zone and townsite historic district, so if, if, so that would just be two, I think. PORTER: Basically, what was the reason for including the historical district in there, since we were only, as far as I'm concerned dealing with L, limited commercial, PARTIAL VERBATIM KENAI CITY COUNCIL MEETING JUNE 3, 2009 PAGE 15 to start with, I think, that's where you're going, and also the issue with the automotive. KOCH: That would stay in the LC part, if it just gets split into two... PORTER: Councilman Boyle. BOYLE: I guess my concern is, I would like to see efforts taken to, to rectify the situation that the automotive service company has without going through a massive change of our code. If there's a way to do that, without changing our code, then let's do that. If we have to step backward and, and zone that general commercial, or whatever it is, but I'd like to see those other options explored without...I mean, I hate to, to think that if another situation comes up, our first thoughts are to go change the code rather than to see if we can find other ways to fix the problem. PORTER: Okay, Councilman Smalley. SMALLEY: Thank you Madam Mayor, and also planning and zoning should have a copy of the verbatim discussion that we've had so they're going to have an idea of what our concerns that what we'd like to see addressed, and so that will also give them some direction hopefully. PORTER: Councilman Ross. ROSS: The, the automotive situation is a situation that has basically been a problem since 2006 that's gone undiscovered. It has, I mean, that was a problem no matter what we've done in the last three years, am I correct? GRAVES: That's correct. ROSS: So, to go back and make the change there, I think is appropriate. If, at the time, I'm not sure it had Anthony's Automotive sign out there when we were doing all this. I think it was still DeWayne Electrical... ELDRIDGE: Electric and plumbers. I think Anthony was working in the back. ROSS: So, I mean, and that business didn't object to the limited commercial designation so, the fact that were where were at now with particular business, we would have been there whether we would have been working on this limited commercial or not for the last year. It's a three year -old problem. PARTIAL VERBATIM KENAI CITY COUNCIL MEETING JUNE 3, 2009 PAGE 16 PORTER: Okay, so, do you have direction? Thank you. END OF VERBATIM. Verbatim prepared and submitted by: J Ai- c 46 Carol L. Freas, City Clerk